Just started a new job… started out as clients freezing pipes above the garage. moved to switching closet and bathrooms place above the garage, and now ripping out the ceiling and turning it into something more “palatial” I am just playing carpenter on this job (thank god)
Ripped down the ceiling and found an existing roof structure (2x4s original to house) with cedar and three asphalt layers… still standing with a new roof built on top.
The new roof… is the worst framing I have seen in my life. And the renovation was done by none other than toronto’s premiere contractors d….b….f……
They built the roof.. 2x6s 14 ‘ in length then… cut out the ridge…and scabbed on 2x4s approx 6′ in length to move the ridge 3’ further. It was tied into the existing roof in order to keep it standing. A struct eng has been called in and I will take lots of pictures tommorow.. This is going to be interesting.
Edited 3/21/2009 5:55 pm ET by clinkard
Replies
" with cedar and three asphalt layers... still standing with a new roof built on top."
Wow. Four layers. That'll never leak! What seems to be the problem?
The original roof needs to be removed (asphalt and cedar), so the ceiling can be raised. This means strengthening the new (2 feet above existing) roof. Pics will explain tommorow. Give me a house with good bones and semi good finishes, as opposed to really nice finishes with #### underneath any day. I think the existing framing is due to an architects/designers change of roofline.
I was just trying to be funny.
Looking forward to the pics. Sounds nasty!!
I was wondering... do i need to explain any further?? hahaha lol.
Give me a house with good bones and semi good finishes, as opposed to really nice finishes with #### underneath any day.
As much as I agree with that sentiment, the roof of my own home....102 yrs. old....was nothing more than 2 X 6 rafters, @ 24"/OC, and NO ridge. Rafter lengths are 32'.
I remember tearing off the existing roof when I first bought the house. Got a large section of shingles cleared down to the batten strips and thought....WTF am I doing up here?!
Decided to complete the tear off from inside the attic so as not to be standing ON the roof should it decide to rack/twist/collapse.
Installed 3/4" CDX decking on top of the battens, and am amazed at how flat and true the roof remains to this day.
Again....not suggesting what you found is acceptable....but I do think we get a bit carried away with ourselves and how we overbuild at times these days.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Passin' the award over to luka.
I definitely agree that a lot of overbuilding is taking place. Most of the houses I have worked on (renos) all 2x4 rafters, 1x6 ridges etc. We recently did an add on, the architect specced 2x12 rafters on a 18' run.
Without mechanical help those puppies are only getting up there one way.
And I haven't met one architect (interior designer..use interchangeably) who I haven't fallen head over heels in love with.
"I have worked on (renos) all 2x4 rafters, 1x6 ridges etc."
A ridge isn't anything more than a nailer unless it's a ridge beam. Vic
I am still learning... so a ridge must have load carrying capabilities? Maybey I am not understanding you completely. I thought a ridge was the top horizontal member of gabled roof? Please educate.
The ridge is the top horizontal framing member. Many homes have been built without one. Many homes have also been built with a 1x ridge board. With most of todays framing it is a 2x ridge board.
The ridge board in that manner is simply a nailer. Also makes raising the rafters easier as there is something "up there" to set it against. But a 1x or no ridge board does not automatically mean it is an underframed roof system.
A ridge Beam is a load carrying member. Ridge Beams are sized to carry/ resist specific loads. And like all beams, the ridge beam must be properly supported.
One example of a ridge Beam is a cathedral ceiling. The ridge Beam is sized to hopd the ridge and keep the walls from spreading. A typical flat ceiling can reduce or skip the ridge Board, as rafter ties, collar ties and or ceiling joists keep the walls from spreading, which make the ridge sway.
With a ridge Board, if the walls can't spread, the ridge can't sink. As long as rafters are sized correctly. That's where the ceiling joists come into play.
With a ridge Beam, if the ridge can't sink, the walls can't spread. That's where the proper support of the Beam comes into play. Clear as Mud? Vic
It the ridge
Would it be correct to say that using a 2x as a ridge is overbuilding in a situation where a 1x ridge would work be sufficient?
yes and no, depending...if you don't know about this, pay very careful attention to what your engineer prescribes, and slow down your heavy criticism of how the preceding person built it.They may have very well done it all wrong, but you are showing a lack of basic knowledge on the subject, so I'm not sure you even know if they did wrong or not, yet here you are naming names and pointing the finger.In it's most simple concept, a roof is held up either by a simple triangle of two rafters and the bottom rafter tie to resit the loads spreading them apart. with good connections, that triangle is stable.take away the bottom member and push down on the top connection and the two rafters spread apart. sliding off the walls or pushing the walls out.So in a situation like that, a structural ridge replaces the ridge board. it is engineered to be able to hold what ever load it needs to and has to be installed with supports taking the point loads down to foundation.FWIW, we just dealt with a similar situation in a house that has been cobbled onto about a dozen times in the last hundred years or so
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Sure chasten the new guy, but you know what he described seeing is all wrong.
From two very innocent questions posters have jumped to the conclusion that he doesn't understand basic pitched roof structures. Given that past discussion on the topic has shown a good 50% of posters here don't either that may well be the case, but a simple enquiry about the thickness of ridge material doesn't lead me to automatically assume that.
oh oh...catfight!
can't you tell the difference between cats and dogs Jim?;)
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lift you legs please?
Um...on second thought....
I don't know what he described is all wrong, no. It might be.
But...First off, I don't have a clear picture of what he saw from his description. It might be all wrong, but he is only 22 YO and said it is the worst he has ever seen, but he is only playing carpenterAll his own words depreciating the value of the eyewitness testimony.He is probably a darn good carp who enjoys his work but a lot of his writing indicates a lack of knowledge and of good judgement, so I lean to thinking the way I do not just from one simple question about a ridge.And it was definitely a question that indicated a deep lack of the knowledge we are talking about, because a 2by instead of a 1by still does not often make for a structural ridge beam.But I spent far more time and words describing the basic to teach him something than the one sentence "chastising" him. I don't know who he was referring to at all, but I do know that bad mouthing someone by name in public can get you sued even if you are right. Doing it if you are ignorant and wrong might get you a kiss from the rafter fairy and some sympathy, but won't defend the concept of slander. It was all constructive criticism from my end. It's only a slam if someone wants to take it that way.He is still a kid and has a long way to go in this life. his energy will help him go along, but some wise advice will help keep him from running his nose into any walls or fists
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Catfight? More like a couple of old grumps. Thanks for the good natured and thoughtful reply.
While I understand where your reply was coming from, what I don't understand is what in his questions precipitated it. His first question was one of terminology: Wasn't it fair to call a non- loadbearing ridge a ridge? To which I would reply: Yes, the code does. He then asked given the lack of significant forces being exerted on a non-structural ridge whether using 2"x material was good practice? To which I would also reply: Yes. Especially when deeper rafter material is being used, it helps resist twisting, and provides a better nailing surface for attachment. Nothing here suggests to me a lack of knowledge at all.
I also like that he called out a builder by name for shoddy work. Why doesn't Mike Holmes? If someone is sure its #### why hide who did it? Remember this is Canada. Whatever our other rather obvious failings, our legal system is not mired in civil litigation the way your is.
Couple thoughts here from the cold praries .
The first thought that would be one real bad fire hazard. If a fire got going up there the Fire Dept. would have a pain getting it out.
Good thing you called an engineer! knowing when your in over your head and ask questions, that's a good trait.
Just be careful about naming people on the web. Yes we are less litigious than the southern folks, but youthful vigor can come back to slap you, ask me how I know this?!?! Let us know what the engineer found out!Down the lake a guy was trying to build a second storey on top of his existing roof peak and all kinds of weird bracing and garbage. The new BI stopped by and asked for the engineer's drawings, Mouthy contractor to him to go #### himself and the job got shut down. They had to pull a framed house off the roof, remove the roof and rebuild. Cost them big time. and now it sits on the market for $750,000. OOOOOps
Always hating on the young guys.. lol
I am playing carpenter, as I GC smaller projects with a partner. I should have made my screen name wolfgang or mendelssohn, just so there was no confusion regarding myself. Age and claimed experience should be taken with a grain of salt. Thanks guys for backing me up. I have heard M...e H.....s has been known to get in fist fights with contractors. (how is that for not naming names)
But I am quite enamored with the idea of doing things properly the first time.I do admit that I am not an expert in roof framing (yet) however I do believe rafters and hip rafters whatever their size should generally extend from top plate to ridge (ridge beam, hip rafter, peak etc)Anyway pics as promised.
niceextension,jpg shows new 2x6 rafters with 2x4s scabbed on the side. I counted as many as four nails in these joints. wall1.jpg shows building the pony or extending wall on top of the existing 2x4 ceiling joists, with no bottom plate. tempsupport.jpg shows temporary supports installed while we wait for struct eng.existframe,jpg is a real beauty. you can see the double 2x8 header that has been cut off and you can see how they cut out the ridge to extend the rafters.seatswrong.jpg is also nice because you can see they ran a third plate for the last six or so feet of this wall. This took us a bit longer to figure out but 15 feet prior to this the birds beak was sitting nicely on the top plate, probably 2 inches from the inside of the top plate, then moves out to 4 inches from the same point. So the wall was running out of square and the rafters were getting longer and longer. I hope I described this correctly. roofoverroof.jpg shows how the whole thing was built prior to deconstruction. Just shoddy work. I believe the existing roof was left in place for cost issues as well as convenience as it would have been easy to work off. There is no excuse for work like this. It infuriates me.I hope this little photo essay sparks debate from which I can learn, and justifies the threads title.
Shoddy might be a bit harsh.
There are issues but nothing that ten minutes, a nail gun and me couldn't fix.
I rarely object to roof over roofing.
Well, I've certainly seen worse - much worse. This is not near as bad as one of the scenes I had imagined form your text.There are a few things a little sloppy there but nothing structurally terrible. The thing that makes it wrong now is removing from under it, the old work that it was braced back to. now that your job is pulling things out from under it, you are right to get an engineer involved. I would too.Would I have done it the same way? Probably not, but I do not know the job they were given to accomplish or the conditions.
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"Would I have done it the same way? Probably not, but I do not know the job they were given to accomplish or the conditions."
I think it would be a fair assumption that, whatever the conditions, one of the things they would want to accomplish would be that thair framing meets code which this does not.
I can't help but feel that if he had simply posted the pictures without comment in the beginning that your response would have been completely different.
Edited 3/19/2009 12:46 pm ET by fingersandtoes
You're welcome to that opinion, but you'll have to point out how it doesn't meet code. There are kickers supporting the splices. It isn't neat, but it has been doing the job just fine without failure.
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I may be wrong but I got the impression the OP was involved in putting the "temp." kickers in, not the previous contractor.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"It was tied into the existing roof in order to keep it standing."This is what he said - so if the verb tenses and grammar are correct, those kickers were already there when he saw it
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May be that is the way he meant it. I didn't understand it that way.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I'm sure he'll clear it up
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"
"You're welcome to that opinion, but you'll have to point out how it doesn't meet code"
The two most glaring examples are:
9.23.11.2 (2) Which reads "A bottom plate shall be provided in all cases"
9.23.13.1 Which allows spliced roof members only if the splice is supported either by a top plate or by vertical members under each piece of the spliced rafter.
I'm not trying to be rude here, I'm just surprised. You usually assiduously dissect photos people post finding errors I never would have seen. This is an obvious mess and you just keep saying it's not.
Edit: You might want to take another look at the pics after reading post 35.
Edited 3/19/2009 10:44 pm ET by fingersandtoes
The temp supports were my partners idea, until the engineer signed off on a solution. You can see how the wood is new. I think it would take more than ten minutes to fix...There is no excuse for work like this.
Not sure about snow loads, but Toronto Canada, and we tend to see a lot of snow. I was wrong in posting names. I will be more careful in the future. This is not the first time I have received responses that weren't exactly of the helpful nature. I am only interested in gaining knowledge and becoming better at what I do.
"I think it would take more than ten minutes to fix"
You are right...it might take 15.
I quoted for 20 minutes. Throw a coffee break in there. Can't be all work.
Since those kickback legs were something you put in there, I owe you an apology. It was done wrong
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I knew you were just missing something. It didn't make any sense.
when words fail, draw a picture.When that fails, hit me in the head
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This is not the first time I have received responses that weren't exactly of the helpful nature. I am only interested in gaining knowledge and becoming better at what I do.
Son, at your age they are all helpful to some degree.
You just need to figure out to what degree.
I remember being a cocky 22 yr old......................
You can remember back that far? Not me ;-)
I wuz pretty cocky at 22 but probably had to having people depend on me. I was a journeyman by then but could not possibly know all that much. I ate a whole lotta crow!!!
I have seen worse. But ... without knowing the length of those spliced rafters what is pictured is absolutely shoddy and #### work.
Quite possibly dangerous if the span of those spliced rafters is very long at all.
I have no idea of snow loads in his area at all, but I wouldn't work on that roof never mind asking it to hold up to a heavy snow fall.
No excuses for the guys who put that mess up and walked away. They should have that fine work published on the front page of the local paper.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I dont feel its right to put peoples names up unless they are here to defend themselfs. One time i was hired by the hour to pour a slab, I told the owner i needed to steel float the slab at 3 in the morn, He told me forget it he did not want to pay me, He would do it and save. He slept and the slab was a mess as i just wood floated it and there was still slurry on top that later chipped off. I could just do as i was told but they paraded people by to show this was the kind of work i did.. Who knows the agreement between this contractor and homeowner???.. Sooner or later this scenario will happen to every contractor my response is i dont know i was not there and the original contractors not here. To put someones name up on a public forum is beyond the pale.
Won't disagree about the contractors name here at all. Doesn't belong here.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
You got it.
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A little late here, but it must be said. Alot of your posts indicate criticism and harsh judgement--two adverbs that don't necessarily interchange with knowledge or skill.
The OP has actually seen what he is describing. You have not. I think that I can buy his take on the situation but not yours. He gives us his take on the situation and you basically just told everyone that he doesn't know what he is talking about. Your ego and arrogance baffles me.
edit: jumped the gun abit, aye? Now that we all have seen it, we can all agree its junk, right Piffin? I wouldn't worry too much about putting a contractor's name on the website. But just be darn sure that it was them that actually did the work.
Edited 3/21/2009 3:17 pm ET by excaliber32
I would venture to say piffen is one of the most respected persons on this board, Perhaps you have not been around long enough to know this. I Do "worry" about people posting names, I have seen many a Contractor try and get a "rep" off the backs of others.. Were You there when the Original Contractor did the Work???. Maybe Someone else finished it. Maybe the homeowner finished it. I have pulled permits and finished, Had the Homeowners hire someone else later with MY name on it. Im not saying the OP had any malice but If a Young fellow starts ripping another contractor flags go up.
Not to hijack the thread, but while I agree with your arguments about assigning blame in situations you might not know all the facts about, what do you think about people like Mike Holmes who have made careers out of abusing other contractor's work with out ever naming names, or examining the circumstances under which the work was done?
I cant reply as i have never seen Mike Holmes, . The only idea i have is hes a big burly fellow in Canada , A sort of Bob Villa???.. However one danger is I can pick apart anything but when does one turn to all negative rather then positive. I have found out homeowners get leery if one goes on and on about previous work and distrust YOU.I like to say, Hey i found some things not Kosher but heres my plan to get you on your way.. However tempting i NEVER say i know a contractor and anything bad about him.For one thing the second you leave there on the phone saying , Hey Bobby was just here and this is what he said. I got caught once when i went to look at a roof, Saw caulk lines that the roofer did not even follow, It was WAY off. After i ran the job down it turned out one of the best companys had done the job but had hired a new man. I called the company and told the owner what i said just to make sure i would have to keep my mouth shut in the future.
Never seen him? Lucky devil.
In Mike Holme's world there is only white and black. In a recent episode he exhorcated an un-named builder because some years later the owners were having parts of their foundation spald and found the concrete only tested out around 5 mpa. Do you test your concrete after you pour? I rely on the batch plant to send me the mix I asked for. The builder was part of a compulsory warranty program, so it was not his role to get involved, but he was tarred as a hack anyway. I'd rather see each show start with some sort of meeting with the original builder to get his side of the story and let us sort out who is to blame.
You seem to have a pretty heathy take on all this. Hopefully it has served you well.
funny to see Holmes brought in. My first impression of the young buck who started this thread left me thinking that he must watch too much of Holmes on TV
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Watching Holmes is a strangely addictive for Canadian builders. It's sort of like living next to a comely neighbor who leaves her curtains open at night. You want to look away but can't...
Owww! My wife just hit me. What was that for???
I'm Canadian. . . and I look away!
The young fellow asked a question in which he himself clearly indicated his lack of understanding of the structural aspects of basic roof framing. Piffin gave him a very clear, very good answer to that question.
I didn't find anything critical, harsh, or judgemental in it. That's my take; YMMV.
I did, however, find the OP's original post (and the title of this thread) to be quite critical and judgemental. But at that age, most of us were the same. So WTF....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"The young fellow asked a question in which he himself clearly indicated his lack of understanding of the structural aspects of basic roof framing"
I hate to re-open what I thought was done, but what in the OP's posts ever indicated a lack of understanding of basic roof structures? As I pointed out earlier, it is an assumption that sure can't be made based on his posts here.
Edit: Based on the pictures he posted do you think the criticisms the OP originally posted were justified?
Edited 3/21/2009 7:02 pm ET by fingersandtoes
I still think his indicated compleat lack of understanding about ridges and roof framing shows that he had no strong qualification to be mouthing off about another contractor's work.
And naming names without knowing the background or letting the other guy in on the slander behind his back is low any way you look at it.you may have noticed that I have also been one of the leading characters here who is quick to stand up for the new guys at time too. Just not at all times. i call them like I see them. If I'm wrong, I'm glad to eat crow.So in this thread, there was some at the dinner table, but I didn;t eat alone
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I missed your earlier post. I'm sorry if I have contributed to you or anyone else here thinking they have crow it eat. Although I am very poor at getting it through in my posts here, I try and enter all these discussions in a mood of good natured enquiry.
I owe a debt to you and many others for the advice I have come to rely on. We may well disagree on all sorts of topics, but my intent is certainly not to score points here.
I didn't see that much wrong in there. Most of the stuff could have been shored up quite easily with a couple of snow braces and legs. I was being facetious about the ten minutes but the roof doesn't need to be torn down to make it work. It just needs a few more sticks to be finished.
Yah, just a small steep hip
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what in the OP's posts ever indicated a lack of understanding of basic roof structures?
From:
clinkard <!----><!---->
Mar-17 11:14 pm
To:
VMackey <!----><!---->
(10 of 59)
117931.10 in reply to 117931.9
I am still learning... so a ridge must have load carrying capabilities? Maybey I am not understanding you completely. I thought a ridge was the top horizontal member of gabled roof? Please educate.
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View ImageReply
Don't get me wrong: I don't have any problem with clinkard posting that. Rather, I applaud him for being man enough to admit he doesn't know something and ask someone who does.
Neither of the two posts in answer to that post (VMackey & Piffin) did much more than provide a direct answer to his question, although Piff did--quite justifiably IMO--smack his fingers lightly in passing for having spouted off a bit beyond his competence:
From:
clinkard <!----><!---->
Mar-17 8:41 pm
To:
ALL <!----><!---->
(1 of 59)
117931.1 The new roof... is the worst framing I have seen in my life. And the renovation was done by none other than toronto's premiere contractors d....b....f...... They built the roof.. 2x6s 14 ' in length then... cut out the ridge...
As I said, clinkard appears to me to be an enthusiastic youngster who is now in the process of learning those things many of us 'oldsters' learned years ago. I can excuse his over-enthusiastic style of criticism as a young man's fault (something from which I still sometimes suffer, ahem!) but at the same time applaud Piff and others for reeling him back in just enough to keep him from getting himself into too much trouble.
Pax, all 'round?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I may well be wrong but I took this statement as a bit of mild sarcasm and not a serious question. ""I am still learning... so a ridge must have load carrying capabilities? Mayby I am not understanding you completely. I thought a ridge was the top horizontal member of gabled roof? Please educate."" The OP should not have posted the firm's name here, other than that he is spot on .
The work pictured was a perfect example of hack.
14' long rafters with tacked on splices to an unsupported and unspliced hip....what other description besides "hack work" applies? I would hazard a guess that if one of the senior members here had posted the same post/photos (without the firm's name) people here would be all piling on talking about what a hack job had been uncovered. IMO The OP's mistake was in the naming of the firm and it was compounded by others not understanding what he was talking about. As for the OP, well he just learned a good lesson for a youngster, ""They don't build em like they used to!!"
Thank Goodness!!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Bro, if he had meant that statement sarcastically, then he would really have an attitude problem. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he meant it seriously.
Hack work--I haven't opened those pix because I'm on dial-up and they're larger than I felt like waiting for...but I will accept your judgement while tempering it with Blue's and Piff's. I, too, have seen my share of hack roof framing--and I'm not shy about identifying it when I see it--but thanks to the many people who have taught me over the years, I understand what holds up a roof and how many different ways there are to do that.
I am also aware that HO's sometimes put financial handcuffs on carps who are then obliged to do the best they can with no budget...or walk away. And yeah, in a perfect world, the carp would walk away, and then Scrooge-the-HO would reach under his mattress and call him back to do it right.
But it ain't a perfect world, and I'm too busy to fix it this week....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Edited 3/22/2009 1:06 pm ET by Dinosaur
Thanks, O Wizard of HiSpeed....
Yeah, I've seen worse than that.
View Image
Take away the Lally column, the built-up beam, and the new joist above it (all of which I installed remedially) and picture in place of the new joist a 2x4 toe-nailed to that old beam...which was sort-of sitting on the post and the dry-stack of concrete blocks and only runs across three joist bays anyway.
IIRC, the bathroom floor had sunk about two or three inches in that spot....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I wished I could have seen the before picture!! I think you were brave for even going under to look at it. I wish I could find the pics of they place I bought to tear down on our lakefront home. at one time it must have been quite nice but after many butchered renos this place was a mess. cut beams dug out partial basement that was collapsing, sewer vent in the attic rot every were. two foot hall way with a 30 inch rail over a 10 foot drop.
We took it apart with care and tried to salvage what was ok. Gave, trade,d bartered lots of materials.
When we dismantled we always had a back up plan and would be careful to keep safety a proirity as we just did not trust anything. took about two weeks in crappy weather but got it done injury free. Our new neighbours came and thanked us for getting rid of the eyesore.Yesterday replaced a 14 foot 2x12 beam that was notched, drilled, sitting on 1- 2x4 on one end and 2 pieces of 1x4 nailed to a bunch of scabbed scraps. Temporary walls went up first
made beam, carefully dismantled old #### put up beam and framed ends correctly. 2.5 hour Me, home owner and 14 year old teen ager. Don't know who put it up but sure glad it's down! and if I was 22 when I did it I would me making bad comments also,
It's hard to surprise me anymore, it''s just how disgusted I feel.
Oh yeah?!
playing my hacks are hackier than your hacks?wanna see one of mine?;)Worth a thread of it's own I think
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wanna see one of mine?
View Image
Look familiar...?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
i've gotta update that one someday. It is even worse, believe it or not.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, but amazingly enough, it's still there!
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Don't get much time to watch Mike Holmes, however I like the fact they use new products and techniques.I don't know why but in Canada we are always slower to get new building products, and adapt new techniques. (code?)example... proper window flashing and deck connector flashing. Some people just don't like building a better name for themselves I guess.
you ain't gonna let all these old guys bickering scare you away are you?
Any progress towards a solution to your roof problem?
spliced rafters got full length rafters sistered on.
Pony wall got rebuilt with sill gasket and bottom plate.
Floor is being moved up 21 inches, same with window.
The kickbacks stay as the engineer signed of on them. rafters ties went in. We are currently framing a cathedral ceiling to allow for insulation. everything is getting spray foamed.
there is a ton of custom cabinetry going in so it is going to look really nice when it is done.
on friday we found a montblanc stuckmiester pen in the brick, client hadn't seen it 15 years!! the surprises never end.
I haven't watched television in 35+ years, so I haven't got a clue about Mike Holmes.
I don't know why but in Canada we are always slower to get new building products,
As to Canuckistanians being what Dr. Sis would call 'late adopters' I consider that a positive attribute. Too many new 'engineered' building products are not sufficiently proved before being put on the market. Too much computer modeling and not enough in-situ testing.
Remember 'poly-B' plumbing pipe? After ~15 years in service, it started to leak. Turns out the plastic couldn't take exposure to fluoridation in most muny water and developed pinholes. Gave rise to the largest class-action suit in U.S. construction history IIRC.
But Duh, here at home, the guvmint continued to allow sale of Poly-B pipe for at least a couple of years after this was discovered. Gave retailers time to sell off their stocks to people who didn't know any better. (Wanna bet me every subsequent sale of Poly-B was accompanied by a stern warning from the 19-yo 'materials counselor' at Canadian Tire not to use it with fluoridated water?)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"I haven't watched television in 35+ years, so I haven't got a clue about Mike Holmes."... I guess the name is accurate.LOLThis is just my perception of the industry dichotomy, as reality could be completely opposite. Could it not be considered a double-edged sword? As it would be hurting us when we are not adopting new materials and technologies fast enough? I am just thinking aloud here...I believe there will always be exceptions (poly-b, ACQ) but we are building somewhat better houses than we were 100 years ago, (still building in the rain... FH) but is this not without the help of improved material and technologies? I guess in some ways it is positive as there are many flawed or unproven products, methods being used today. What does everyone think? This could probably be its own thread.I found this http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/hoficlincl/cmhcin/suexin/inre/inre_008.cfmWhich provided little help.
...but we are building somewhat better houses than we were 100 years ago...
I don't think that's true, except in that (small) part of the market which consists of custom homes built by small, private builders.
I read somewhere here a year or so back that the average 'flip' time on a suburban tract house is now under 7 years, and that most of those which were built post-1980 are ready to be torn down. But I look at neighbourhoods full of 'cheap' tract houses built in the 1920s (like my grandmother's house in Queens) or the 1950s (like my parents' first house on Long Island) and I see houses that are good for another 50 years, easily.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"Pax, all 'round?"
Of course.
absolutely, Now let's go have some fun with the ideahttp://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=118106.1
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You still need to go back and edit those names out of your post!!!!
He may not realize he can.
clinkard, click on edit, and you can change something in a post, if you want to...buic