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I started with my son last year when he was twelve however there were some projects I couldn’t get him near as the supers were nearly paralized with insurance worries. So he spent alot of time last summer with remodels when only the homeowner was there.
Had to fire him at the end of the summer as he got too mouthy. Any other job and he’d been fired the second day. He’ll be working again this summer. For a 12 year old making $5 an hour is a big deal. He can buy the clothes he wants etc. It’s such a shame for kids these days that they cannot work for the most part until the age of 16. I started with my father at 12 as a laborer cleanup kid as he built custom homes.
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I am just wondering how old your kids were when you first started getting some "real" work out of them on the job.(I am NOT talking about DIY stuff here). I read an article this week about a crew that has a good sized OSHA fine now because a crew members 13 year old realative(son or nephew) was injured on the job.He was stapling insulation on a wall section that was laying flat on the deck before stand-up,stepped through a window opening that happened to line up with a open stair well and fell into the basement.
So the question remains how soon do you start teaching the trade to your sons ON SITE?
Good Luck,Stephen
*Oooops,excuse me and slap me upside the head for that double postMy apologies,Stephen
*I am so sorry to hear about that 13 year old kid.While I do not have any of my own :( I do use my friend's sons now and then. I have established 14 as the minimum age. That would be for the most basic work--light demo, nailing decking, etc. I'm so nervous from the time they step out of the truck that I reserve using them only on the small jobs when I can afford to not make a profit. Constant supervision is the key. Once had a young gent cost me $40 in lumber--kept messing up reading the tape.
*Child labor laws are set at a certain floor federally, states can increase the ante. Number of hours per week are restricted by age -- idea is that they should be going to school. And most dangerous jobs -- construction certainly can be dangerous -- is prohibited. I remember reading that they were cracking down on this point a bit. Labor laws (as distinct from OSHA safety laws) have not been strictly enforced for some years now, a legacy of the Reagan years. There are exceptions -- you may remember an unfortunate case a few years ago where a baseball team was told by local enforcement it couldn't use its bat boy any more because games sometimes went too late -- led to outcry, Labor Dept. in DC backed down quick.It is easy to get info -- look through the blue pages in your phone book. When I worked at age 14 or 16 I remember getting a permit to work which had the relevant info. Check with your insurer too of course. Teenagers really lack the judgment -- or at the the strong desire for self-preservation -- that adults have. At least, i sure drive a lot slower than i used to. :)
*Old enough to know better,Too young to care.I developed a wonderful relationship with heights, ballance and falling when I was young, fell off lots of ladders as a landscaping teen (pruning enormous shrubs) and hit the roof running when I got into framing houses.When I turned thirty, all the guys at work said that my dick was going to fall off. It happened to everyone. I was horrified. Well, it didn't, but my urge for self preservation increased. Maybe that's what they meant...As far as kids on the job site go, it sort of scares me. But, my rookie scares me. Every time I hear a saw I get nervous. I think it's more of a common sense question than an age thing. If the kid's not an idiot, and seems intetrested, have at it.But be careful, cover all the openings with plywood or something. Let them hand drive nails. If they start going too fast, slow 'em down. Let them move some plywood for you...After you've done it for a while, it's easy to forget where the simple little dangers are.Ten fingers and counting,Dan
*I was working nearly forty hours a week in the summers when school was out by the time I was ten or twelve years old . Just packin and nailin , no power tools except maybe a drill or a jig saw . My two younger brothers came up the same way with no serious injurys to anybody . I think my dad started me at five dollars a day . I cant see that it did any of us any harm . We all have a good work ethic and we're all still in construction . I think it was a lot healthier than watching tv and playing nintendo all day like so many kids today do . You appreciate what you spend your money on more when you know how hard it is to earn some more . I have a seventeen year old nephew who's been helping me for three or four years during the summer , once again with no problems , in fact he's a better hand than alot of grown men I've worked with . Chuck
*I started with my son last year when he was twelve however there were some projects I couldn't get him near as the supers were nearly paralized with insurance worries. So he spent alot of time last summer with remodels when only the homeowner was there. Had to fire him at the end of the summer as he got too mouthy. Any other job and he'd been fired the second day. He'll be working again this summer. For a 12 year old making $5 an hour is a big deal. He can buy the clothes he wants etc. It's such a shame for kids these days that they cannot work for the most part until the age of 16. I started with my father at 12 as a laborer cleanup kid as he built custom homes.
*I worked every summer from 12 on teaching computer programming and think it was a great experience (though I earned about $2 an hour). Work experience in general is great not just at "teaching" good habits, but also helping a kid realize what work is like and what the point is of working hard in school and such to get the better jobs. Working harder can make life a lot better, a great lesson to pass on.
*I think Dan is right about it depending on who you're talking about. I started a 16 year old out summers a few years ago who I had known for years. He litteraly couldn't read a tape, had to make him a big "model" of the halfs, quarters, etc on a 2x4 to teach him. But the first time I showed him how to use a skil saw, and he tried it (with me scared to death but tying to look at ease) he was fine. I never worried about him after that, and he never had any problems. Other folks are never comfortable with tools or on a roof. We're all different. - jb
*WAIT A MINUTE! Are you saying yours DIDN'T fall off?
*Lots of good input here. There is a real difference between a small, closely held company putting the owner's kid to work and anything larger mixing a young worker with regular, on-the-books, insured and regulated crews. Check the labor laws, what your insurance company says and what OSHA and state safety rules say. I'm not sure, philosopically, all those strictures are really good for our society and the development of discipline and work ethic, but as a business person you're better off complying.There really is a difference between individuals. At any age. We always found there were workers who were marginally productive, clumsy and sometimes even a danger to themselves or others regardless of age and experience. And that does not mean they were unintelligent or lazy or unenthusiastic. Others had a natural common sense and working rythym. You could see it in how they moved and handled tools and organized each task, each step even.I'd say you have to look for the same qualities in youngsters to know how young you can put them to work and at what. For some the experience will improve those qualities.Here in the affluent burbs of NY, I'm shocked at how few kids work. You can't get a ten year old to cut the grass for $10-15 an hour. It's not just the money, they're just not interested. When we were growing up we'd bang on doors to get the opportunity to work: lawns, wash windows, clean the gutters, shovel the snow, walk the dog whatever. Some of it is the heavy homework and extra-curricular and sports loads they have, but not all of it.I still think the working experience is extremely formative in terms of habits and builds self esteem. And it's not just for a life in the trades. One of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had was the client who said we'd have the job, but only if his teenage sons were given tasks to do. These kids were bound for Ivy League schools and professional careers, dad just wnated them to get their hands dirty and learn to work.
*Hi Fellows,In Steve's original post, the issue seems to have been contractor liability when a youngster is hurt on the jobsite.As Andrew pointed out, it's both a federal and State (Province) responsibility to set a standard and enforce it.Many of us did enter the trade at an early age that was probably a violation when we did it. However, those of us that still have 10 fingers and whatever other parts that can go missing, must not forget those that don't. We were survivers, some were not. So should we be condoning child labour on jobsites?This argument is a hot issue with farmers and if you check with the farm safety boards you will find the statistics to be horrifying.I did the same as most of you did when I first brought my 10 year old son to the jobsite. It's normal, he's your son and you're proud of him. But I would never have let him work or allowed him around the tools at that age.I like many of you, worry when I have a rooky on the jobsite. It takes time to know how to even walk around a jobsite safely. There are some adults that I wouldn't allow to use power tools on my jobsites, because I'm ultimately responsible for their safety.As management, I cannot and will not, allow anyone under the age of 16 onto our jobsites. It gives me one less thing to worry about.Gabe
*I've taken my oldest son to jobs with me where there have been short days with minor tasks. Of course he is limited to "hold this for daddy" or "get me some of that". It is not that I need a hand..matter-of-fact, he slows me down considerably but it is quality time..at least I feel so. I can't wait for the day when my boys can work side by side with their old man.Loving my children,Pete Draganic
*When people bring their kids to the site, it scares the hell out of me. It also leaves a wierd feeling to see kids doing work. Not that kids are necessarily more likely to do worse work than anyone else, but to see a 15 year old working leaves the impression that its amateur hour and the sub is looking to save some money at my expense. I know it isn't necessarily true, but that's the feeling I get.If you're going to do it, it would probably be best to let people know and get their Ok so there's no hard feelings about it.SHG