I have to remove two layers of vinyl and the underlayment in a kitchen so installer can put in new underlayment and vinyl. The base cabinets sit on top of the underlayment and first layer of vinyl. Any easier/better way to do this than to use reciprocal saw and chisel to cut underlayment at toe kick? I’ve pretty much chiseled through, in one place I removed the decorative toe kick and in another pushed it in a little. Reciprocal saw was mostly skipping around as the angles were wrong to hold it well. Thought of a rotozip, but haven’t tried it yet.
I’m probably done, but won’t know until tomorrow when I actually try to pull up the underlayment and see if I chiseled deep enough. Lady doesn’t want kitchen messed up longer than is absolutley necessary, hence the delay–the installer comes Thursday morning. The chiseling through the underlayment under the toe kick didn’t mess up the kitchen, and I pulled the base mold and moved things back where they were on that wall.
Oh, BTW, how would you fix this?: I put a brad through the side of a cabinet (melamine over MDF) while putting the toe kick on a bathroom cabinet. I would have pulled the prad, injected glue and clamped, but HO made me put on vinyl base to hide it.
Replies
My rotozip has a right angle attachment that accepts blades about 4" dia. I have cut off wheels and sanding discs ... don't know if a saw blade is available.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
This saw works every time:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004SUP4/qid=1110324376/sr=1-13/ref=sr_1_13/002-5382985-6432817?v=glance&s=hi
The installer should have a saw designed to do just that.
Why not just remove the cabinets first?
There's a saw made just for that application, you can probably rent one locally or purchase one if you'll be doing much of that type of work....
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0000224Q9/ref=dp_product-image-only_0/002-3630846-1757636?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=507846
or
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0007V11C8/ref=dp_product-image-only_0/002-3630846-1757636?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=507846
Yup. That toekick saw's the ticket. My old boss had one of those, bought it specifically for a job involving removing vinyl and underlayment without disturbing the cabinets. I managed to find dozens of other uses for that bad boy over the years.
Keep in mind!!!!!!!!!!!! Take a good look at the photo. Now imagine how much torque there is on the business end of the saw and think about where you're holding it. You literally have to "grab the bull by the horns" and hold on for dear life. It's one and only intent is to try like heck get away from you and come racing toward ya with murderous intent! It's a beast.
Can you use it to cut the bottom of door jambs?
Probably, but it would be one heck of a tough job holding it steady enough. I would probably just rent a jamb saw for that application. unless there is maybe an attatchment available for it that would hold it up off the floor at the correct height.
Thanks for the responses! The installer told me he expected me to have the two layers of vinyl and the old underlayment up and out, along with the baseboards, and stove and fridge moved so they could do installation. Apparently they just put down new particle board and vinyl and that's all. Since I'm getting maybe $90 from the owner to do this, I won't be buying a toe kick saw, but I may see if I can rent one!
I can't remove the cabinets--owner wants to keep them. Maybe I did enough work this afternoon to get the old particle board out.
The cautions about being bitten by a toe kick saw are well noted. Since I've never used one, I will be extra careful if I can get one. For what is left that I didn't chisel, I may borrow my dad's Rotozip and maybe buy a right angle attachment.
I've already bought a lot (well two items) of equipment I didn't need--a roller for the vinyl (actually I did use it in the bathroom, and it'll come in handy) and a laser level (but couldn't follow its lines because the rooms were so far from level and plumb that the molding would have looked crooked if I had put it on level!) which is always useful.
So the idea is to remove only the vinyl and underlayment, but leave the rest of the subfloor. In that case:
Start by setting the depth on a circular saw to cut thru the vinyl and underlayment. Cut thru it about 6" - 10" away from the cabinets, and rip out the field, leaving only those edges.
Get under the remaining edge underlayment with a flat bar and wedges, and get a couple feet of it at a time pulled up and stressed. This makes a tighter "V" where it meets the bottom of the toe kick. With a long blade on the recip saw, guide against the toe kick and cut downward and just a little inward. That articulated PC Tiger Claw saw would be nice to have for this.
The pried up underlayment will help a little with guiding the saw, and the stress on it will release, giving you an indication when you've gone deep enough. Cross cut and rip out the sections that have been cut thru, just to get them out of the way. Clean up any remaining fragments with a utility knife or old chisel.
-- J.S.
Good advice--since I have the recip saw and a circular saw (probably use the battery one as it makes less dust) I'll try your technique! Thanks!
I've been told that a lot of sheet flooring made prior to 1986 contains asbestos. I'd do some checking before using the circular saw. At least find a way to contain the dust. And wear breathing protection.
oldfred
The old vinyl has come loose in a lot of places from the underlayment, so I'll try to pry it up and out of the path of the circular saw. Thanks for the warning. In my old house I had asphalt tile that I was pretty sure had asbestos, so I just put a layer of 1/4" plywood over it and carpeted. Can't do that here.
Assuming the lower cabinets were installed on top of vinyl and 1/4" or 3/8" underlayment, how will you keep the cabs from sagging once these materials are gone?
The toe kick is mostly decorative--the cabinets are still supported on their sides and they are screwed to the studs (I'm hoping) as well. Also, I only removed the MDF up to the kicks in some places (where I could remove the decorative kick or shove the kick in, I did so, but will put them back in place once the new floor is down.
Had no problem removing the MDF after all--the chisel had done the trick and there was a seem in the MDF about a foot from the cabinets, but removing all those freaking staples was a royal PITA. They were narrow, so had to push one jaw of needle nosed pliers in and then pry with flat bar against the pliers. Got rather tiresome after a hundred or so!