Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 28, 1999 08:47am | #1

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   2B, here's what I look for in a tradesman:

   What's "good enough?" Who selects the lumber? What fasteners are you using? What would you use for floor underlayment? How tight is "tight?" Are his tools used, but clean and in good condition? They're his livelyhood, and I'd expect some care to be given.

   For your answers, I'd expect: Good enough is when it's right (for the money). I select the lumber, and I want it from a good yard, not a "home center", pay the extra. Quality name-brand fasteners, galvanized or stainless when needed. Douglas Fir Ply, 3/4 inch, 5 layer, exterior grade. Eighth inch tollerance max... Yes, they've got some age, but I need time to clean-up/maintain/fix or sharpen as required.

   Now, your job as homeowner: Pay for premium lumber, plywood, shingles, siding, fixtures, flooring, fasteners, etc.... We get cheaped in order to afford the
   Wolf Range, 6 person hot-tub, 1000 extra SF of house, 60 inch flat screen TV, Sub-Zero Fridge, and Italian Marble entry. We're not in it for the fun, we're not bankers, and there's very few philanthrophists left.

   Happy building, and good fortune.

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 28, 1999 06:41pm | #2

   *Wow, Goerge. That pretty much nails it on the head. H2B, a well-built house shows from the things nobody ever sees. Go see the builder's work. Look at the floor from below, see the joists. Look in the closet and under the sinks. Look in the attic. If he can't do finish trim, that's an easy call. But cutting a decent scarf joint doesn't mean that he's built a good house. If you want something that won't fall down 10 years later, forget about the flash and look to the substance.And don't ask, because the bad builder won't tell the truth. Just look.SHG

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 28, 1999 10:12pm | #3

   *H2BGeorge and SHG raised some good points, but I think you hit the nail on the head with your very first sentence. You are in the process of designing and refining the plans to the home you want to build. It is at this point that you need to find a builder and get them involved. Find someone that has some design capabilities because when you go to a builder after you have spent many hours "refining" your plans, the builder will point out items that you may have missed. For example, I just got finished rough framing a house for an elderly gentleman that wanted to act as his own GC with plans that he modified from "blueprints" he ordered out of a plan book 20 years ago. he kept the same footprint, but modified the rooms. When I asked them why the were selling their 2 story house down the street, he mentioned that his wife was having a hard time getting around and that they wanted to go to a 1 story incase they were ever to the point of being confined to a wheelchair. Turns out, he was only allowing a 24" opening for the bathrooms and by the time he put in the vanity, the countertop would have stuck out into the doorway 5 inches, 28" bedroom doors off a hallway that was only 36" wide, etc. you get the picture! Back to your original question, asked the prospective builder questions before you tell him what YOU want.* What thickness sheating do you use on the roof? (I use 3/4" T&G plywood (better holding power for roofing nails) with adhesive applied to the roof joist)* What do you use for outside wall sheathing? (I prefer to use 5/8" OSB all the way around (not just at the corners). If the exterior is going to be vinyl, I prefer 3/4" T&G.* Check with the local Home Builders Association & BBB to see if there are any complaints against him/her.* Find out if there have been any mechanical leins filed against him for not paying for materials used on a job. If he doesn't pay for them, the vendor will file a lien against you.* Get references or better yet, ask for the last 5 homes he/she has build and go look at them. * Find out where they are currently building a home. This may be hard in some cases (I only build 2-3 homes a year and only take on another one when one is almost finished. Look at their job site. Is it clean or a mishap waiting to happen? Does safety come first? Get a copy of their workers comp and liability/builders risk insurance before signing a contract or specify in the contract that prior to any work being started, proof will be provided. In my state (Oklahoma), I call the State Insurance Fund, give them the prospective customers name and address and they mail out proof of my WC insurance within 24-48 hours. The same goes with my insurance agent for liability/br insurance.AS for picking out the cabinets, plumbing, etc. let them know that you have a particular item in mind, but keep an open mind if he/she has a suggestion. (Another prospective customer drew up his house plans and ceiling heights varying from 8' to 12' throughout the house. One the master bedroom end, the end wall was 9' the depth of the house with a 6/12 roof pitch, MBRM had a 12' ceiling, MBATH had 10' ceilings. When I did a cross elevation of this end of the house, the MBRM ceiling came through the roof.The last thing I want to say is, you get what you pay for. If you want quality craftsmanship, pay the extra. If you want the quality of a tract home (in & out, quick & cheap) (they look nice in the beginning) then go that way. The point being is both a KIA and a Mercedes will get you from point A to point B, but for how long?VinceIn what area of the country do you plan on building?

2. 
   Mad_Dog | Oct 29, 1999 12:14am | #4

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   Vince has some good points as well as George and SHG. But really, Vince, do you think he should turn his back on anyone who doesn't use 3/4 t&g plywood for roof and wall sheathing? Someone pays for that.

3. 
   Guest_ | Oct 29, 1999 06:53am | #5

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   It's my experience that some of the people who are in a position to judge a good builder are the inspectors...go down to your local council/city department and ask to speak the building inspectors. They should be able to reccommend a good GC for you. Then ask the GC for references from other clients, as well as check out work currently under construction. Is his site tidy? Are materials stacked properly, out of the weather? Talk to his subs..they'll soon give you an idea of what he's like to deal with. Does he pay them on time? Is he particular with the quality of their work?

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 29, 1999 03:24pm | #6

   *H2BLook at the number of homes build a year. If he builds more than 5 a year you will not get the personal attention you want. Does the contractor have a crew? does he work on the house himself? These are the things you should ask.Rick Tuk

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 29, 1999 10:58pm | #7

   *MDI was just giving him some questions to ask and in the ()'s, I was giving my personal preference. I explain to the prospective homeowner(s) what I use, why that is my preference and the cost difference. On roof sheating, the standard now is 1/2" (actually 7/16" (that's only 1/16" away from 3/8")) OSB. On a new home, the roof looks good, but after a couple of years, that 7/16 OSB has a tendancy to start sagging between the rafters. On side walls, with studs @ 24"oc, if a brick veneer is going up, 7/16 OSB is fine, but I still prefer 3/4 T&G, especially if it going to have vinyl siding.The cost difference in the overall price of the house is minor.The main idea I was trying to get across was some questions to ask.The area I normally build in is outside the city limits, so there are no building inspectors. I depend on my reputation as a builder of quality homes and I would be proud to take my grandchildren (or anyone else as a matter of fact) to any home I built.Vince

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 31, 1999 10:12am | #8

   *H2B your words are like music to my ears, that is until the evil words come forth......"well this friend of my sisters boyfriends brother said he can do it for........." it sounds like what you're looking for is great job. A great job starts with lumber, plywood(No all 2x4 ain't the same)all the little things that everone was mentioned above. Where it starts to fall apart is when you have to start cutting back on the budget to pay for that kitchen tile. You change from 5/8 plywood to 7/16 little things like that start to add up. I offer you the best of luck on your new house and your search for a builder let us know how it goes in your search....

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 01, 1999 06:47am | #9

   *Yes to all the above , they were all posted by someone I would feel fairly confident in hiring for my own house when I get too old to do this myself.But........ regional differences do crop up, here, its poured concrete foundations, plywood walls (not OSB), plywood roofs. EtcETc.The most important thing is the beginning. Your design and Specs. If this is your first house, I don't believe your design will be particularly good . It'll be fun, and it'll be yours , but it probably won't be as good as it can be.here's the way I figure it. There are a lot of great builders out there , in every town. Check their references.!But the best builder can't give you a good house with poor design. So start with good design. Work on your plans , have them reviewed by some design professionals , someone with single family home experience. Look at their work, and find out some of their design philosophy. Do they design good looking homes that you would like to buy ? Are they workable floor plans. Do they have good trim details that will stand the test of time and the elements ? Is the design appropriate for the neighborhood or are you building out in the woods. Some of the builders will also be designers, they may be the one for you to bring your plans to. But if you have good plans, your builder just has to be a good builder , so your problem is easier to solve.I'm only guessing that your plans arn't really ready for pricing and building because if you had a lot of experience in Design, you would already know how to find a good builder too. They sort of go hand in hand. Good builders like to work on houses that have good design and the design comes first.Bad builders are legion.Good builders are in every community.The design is the first step.......get it right.After you've designed, and built and lived in about 3 homes, you approach getting it right.

4. 
   Kjol_Lahti | Nov 02, 1999 01:38am | #10

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   A friend of mine is doing the timberframe part of the home for me.He is timberframer in England My experience is in building full Log homes in Finland. My wife does'nt want a log home. not sure why other then it might not look right in the city neighborhood :-)) The home will be of a saltbox design, I'm sure having you living in New England have seen one or two of those. Finnish building codes for log homes are quite different then homes built in the USA. I had to use 2 inch roof boards. Rubber underlayment under the whole roof, not just the first 3 to 5 feet. 250psf snow loads.

1. 
   Mad_Dog | Nov 02, 1999 05:23am | #11

   *Hey Vince,Meant no offense. I think it's great you go to those lengths to build a better house. It seems like a lot of corners get cut so they can put in a jacuzzi or high end applianc

5. 
   Guest_ | Nov 02, 1999 03:47pm | #12

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   Whether or not the 5/8 t&g is necessary where H2b is building, it's still good to let people know that there is a difference in the material the customer doesn't see and that's the difference between a good job and fluff job. Just wanted to add that the design element is a huge factor. If H2B wants it done right, he should have it designed by someone who really knows what he's doing. He can add his sensibilities to the design, but not do the design work himself. There's been plenty of good commentary on this site about how irresponsible design work can kill a good house.

   SHG

6. 
   Kris-Ann | Nov 02, 1999 08:34pm | #13

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   Do any of you know of any websites that might list complaints about or ratings of particular home builders? I see a lot of information on websites about good things with particular builders, but with the exception of the BBB, I haven't been able to find any websites that include complaints or ratings.

7. 
   Guest_ | Nov 02, 1999 09:32pm | #14

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   Kris-Ann

   I don't know of any web site that would offer "ratings" for homebuilders simply for the liability factor. The best ratings are by getting references from the home builder. Keep in mind that a fair or so-so builder is only going to give you "good references". Ask questions, go by one of their homes under construction, etc.

   On a different subject, I would like to see the home builders that use this forum to update their home page info to give us, the viewing audience more info about you, the homebuilder. If you notice, under my name on this post, you'll find the name of my company and swhere I'm located.

   Vince

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 03, 1999 12:27pm | #15

   *vince that sounded like a hint for a lead........

8. 
   Mad_Dog | Nov 03, 1999 04:49pm | #16

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   Kris-Ann,

   There is a website about this, I don't know the address, but
   it is supposed to be a referral system based on complaints
   and I think, legal actions, credit, etc. I haven't seen it.
   My problem with it is it may or may not include the smaller
   businesses like my own. And how do they compare things
   between various types of builders? Anyway, it does exist,
   if that helps much. Maybe it would be something to
   consider, but to me there's a lot more to finding a good
   builder than what some website could prove. (See above) Ask
   the website what size of roof sheathing the builder uses!

   MD

   xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx

9. 
   Homebuilder_to_be | Nov 04, 1999 01:59am | #17

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   I'm in the process of designing and refining the plans to my home. picking out cabinets, plumbing and the rest, but here is my question? How do you find a builder who cares about the home he builds? What sort of questions would you ask? I would like to work with a builder who wants to bring his grandson/granddaughter to the house 30 years from now and say to them "Grampa built that home"

10. 
    Guest_ | Nov 04, 1999 01:59am | #18

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    All the replies have been right on so far and I would like to add this. I think a builder's knowledge of the interaction of all the systems and materials that will be used to build the home is as important as the quality of the materials. A house is a large system that can get screwed up if any of its components are not up to their intended tasks. If a builder relies only on good sub- contractors for their technical expertise, and has little technical knowledge of his own, one day he will have major problems. An understanding of the mechanical and energy topics frequently discussed on this board is a good place to start. Ask your prospective builder if he believes a house can be built too tight. Stay away from those that do. If you want the longest lasting and most comfortable home possible, it has to be as tight as it can be. All the most popular insulation materials will do a good job if installed properly with good air sealing work.(I've been partial to spray cellulose for 18 years, but I don't judge anyones competence because they use something else.)
    Who does the service work?, is also an excelent
    question to ask. A good builder should always feel the responsibility to provide prompt service even if his subs have different ideas about service. The buck stops at the top.