Hello,
This is my first posting here, and I do hope the members can help me out!
I plan to start construction on a new house within the next 2 months, and I plan to do my own wiring, stained glass windows, bath and kitchen cabinets, and probably the wood and tile flooring also.
One thing I really would like to do is make my own fixed windows with1/4″ tempered glass on the outside as a protective frame for the stained glass panels that would be installed behind them.
I have searched the web repeatedly, but there seems to be little information out there on how to make a simple fixed window. My search terms don’t seem to turn up anything, other than installing factory windows or repairing the casement and glazing. And this is AFTER separating the “wheat” from the Microsoft WINDOWS “chaff” that is produced in reams!
Does anyone have this knowledge or a page that they can point me to? I am most appreciative of any help that I may receive!
Thanks,
Mark
Replies
Here are a few references that I pulled off of some other site:
Best of Fine Homebuilding - Windows & Skylights
Best of Fine Homebuilding - Windows & Skylights
Best of Fine Homebuilding - Windows & Skylights
Constructing fixed windows shouldn't be terribly difficult. A typical DIYer way would be to use a set of sash bits. There are some sets available for routers, you could use them on a router set in a router table.
Check at your library, a book store, or on Amazon of Half.com for window making books.
If you would like to purchase stock sash rail mouldings., treated clear white pine ...call 312-247-7255, Salb Sash & Door, Chicago, Il.
............................................................Iron Helix
To Iron Helix and Mongo,
Thanks very much for the suggestions! I'll follow up on them ASAP. Sounds encouraging.
Regards,
Mark
Hey Mark,
I'm an everyday schmoe and not a professional in the building trade, so take this for what it's worth.
I seem to recall seeing something on tv about a restoration project where old stained glass windows were covered with storm windows for insulative value. Those panels had stood decades of weather without harm, but failed shortly after being covered. The problem was that the extra pane of glass trapped a great deal of heat and that heat was killing the old panels.
These were very dark stained glass panels, as in a church. If your panels are more transparent, they may not trap as much heat. However, I would be concerned about condensation.
That's a long way of saying that I'd be careful to vent the airspace between the glass panels.
Good luck!
Jon
BTW My wife would love to include some home-made glass panels in ournew house, so I'd love to hear how this works out.
HI Jon,
I've made a few stained glass windows now, some for exterior windows, and a few art glass panels for kitchen cabinet doors. All of these were for friends who have been quite pleased with their new pieces. You should try taking a course in stained glass. It's not terribly difficult, but experience certainly is a good teacher. That's why I prefer to get my experience using my friends' $$$! ;-)
Your point in regard to ventilation is well taken. I will check with a local stained glass artisan who has been very helpful to me. She has already suggested Low-E glass, which may take care of excessive heat gain by itself. This is what she uses for her own installations.
That said, my intent was to install windows that will be influenced by the work of Frank Lloyd Wright, who used relatively light tinted glass combined with geometric shapes. I wanted to be able to have a nice effect and still be able to see outside. Try pointing your browser to http://www.finearts.uvic.ca/~whistory/KARLIN/ and http://www.flwlightscreens.com/ for some examples of Frank Lloyd Wright's work in this venue.
Thanks for your reply. Let me know if you want me to send you a private post with updates.
Regards,
Mark
Hi, Mark-
I spent 25 years in the art glass trade. What the others have said about venting the airspace is a worthy consideration, especially if the glass is prone to absorb heat as they say. I HAVE installed some without venting- there was not always a problem with condensation, and I figured that it depended upon the particular interior environment, whether or how much water vapor was in the air.
One way to really cut down on potential condensation would be to use an IG unit for the exterior lite. As a matter of fact, I've installed quite a lot of art glass that has been encapsulated into insulated glass units(tempered lites both sides). The trick is to find a producer that will accept the liability of handling YOUR glasswork. The major manufacturer that we used actually DID NOT accept liability for breakage, so we did all the handling that we could do ourselves. Another encapsulation option would be to hook up with a local glass shop that makes up its own IGU's, potentially a more personal and controllable arrangement. Keep in mind that you could order the manufactured window WITHOUT the factory lite, and install with the encapsulated art glass IGU. Overall thickness is something to pay attention to so you end up properly filling the particular rebate size of the window you will be using. I've done a lot of encapsulations where the thickness was spec'd. as: 1/8"clear temp. / 3/8" airspace / 1/8"clear temp. , which means that the thickness of the unit overall is 5/8". The airspace is where the art glass panel goes, of course, and will fit most panels fabricated with common lead came profiles. I could go on, but feel free to ask me more if you would like.
Hey- Frank Lloyd Wright was a big influence in my art glass career, and I've done a lot of glasswork so inspired. Great work from Mr. Wright!
Ken Hill
Hi Ken,
Ditto on the Frank Lloyd Wright opinion! I have always enjoyed his architecture, but only recently became aware of his other endeavors and his "whole house" concept.
Do you have a web page displaying your efforts in glass? I'd like to see them.
Regards,
Mark
Hiya, Mark-
Sorry, Bud. No website. Lots of photos but no way to post right now. Maybe a digital camera sometime. I'm a computer neophyte and on a steep learning curve. I have lots of installations in Olympia Wash. area, Seattle/Tacoma.
Ken Hill
Hi Mark,
I've always been interested in stained glass, but I've got too many other things going on to take on any new "hobbies". My wife is already quite accomplished with it, so I'll leave the stained glass work to her.
My main area of interest here is the same as yours. I would very much like to here how you work it out.
Cheers,
Jon
Since you can't seal the air space airtight, ventillate it.
Put a holes or channels at the bottom and at the top.
Small holes, like 1/16. This won't change the insulating value much.
If you don't you will have condensation between the panes and
frost. Before they learned to seal double-insulated windows
with argon or dry air inside, they drilled one or two tiny
holes in the inside pane. Water vapor will get inside. It
needs a way to get out. Just make sure the outside pane is
sealed properly. Only want holes on the inside.
Thanks Bob, a good tip!
Mark
I may not know where you are going with this, and why, but wouldn't it make more sense to buy a fixed lite unit that matches your other exterior openings and build the stained glass to fit within that?
Yes, I considered that, but it seems that the fixed lite units appear to cost as much as double hung units. I hoped to save money by building my own windows. Checking with local glass suppliers yielded a cost of ~$65 for a 2'8"x6'2" piece of 1/4" tempered glass. That plus the cost of wood and misc. materials seems to fall well under the manufactured units, although this is admittedly an apples and oranges comparison (the store-bought units have insulated glass, for example).
I may still go for manufactured windows, but I'm not happy with the prices charged for what seems like a window that's *easier* for the manufacturers to build, since the fixed windows have no moving parts, easier to weather-strip, etc. Perhaps I'm missing something here?
The biggest influence on my thinking has been the insulated windows in my present house. These are good windows, made by a well-known company, but all IG windows will leak after some time, no matter how well made. My windows are now 17 years old, and all of them have ugly stains that can't be removed. That irritates me every time I look out the windows!
Mark
If you're asking for advice about building the sash and jambs, I'd say keep things simple. For fixed units you don't need a sash. The simplest way would be to use flat stock, like 1 x 6, for the jamb, nail stops around the inside perimeter, fasten your glass to those stops with either double sided glazing tape or siliconized clear caulk, then install the exterior stops. If you want to layer tempered-stained-tempered these stops could provide the spacing you nedd between each layer of glass. Don't forget to taper the top of the bottom stop that's exposed to the weather, and mill a drip kerf on the bottom edge of the sill or bottom casing to keep water from wicking back onto the siding.
You can get a cleaner interior look by using rabbetted jambs instead of interior stops. The simplest way I know to do that is use 2 pieces of 1 x stock and stagger them to create the required depth of the rabbet. I used to rabbet 2 x stock for jambs, but it got harder and harder to find nice looking 2 x and you pay a lot more per board foot for it.
There's nothing hard about building sash for awning and casement windows either, and you're right, you can save a lot of money and end up with way nicer windows than you can buy commercially. All I use is a planer, jointer, table saw and radial arm saw. But then again, I prefer Shaker-like forms over ogees and such.
The list Mongo gave was a good one, anything by John Birchard is worth reading. Here're a couple more book titles you might check out, I'm not sure if they're still in print or not -
Handcrafted Doors&Windows, Amy Zaffarano Rowland, 1982, Rodale Press, ISBN 0-87857-424-7
Ed Knox' Window Book, Ed Knox, 1998, self published, I got my copy at Builder's Booksource in Berkely, CA - http://www.buildersbooksite.com.
To Jim and all the other members who responded- thanks very much! I have received some great advice and have ordered two of the books mentioned earlier, which I look forward to reading.
At 49 years of age, I am a "late bloomer" in woodworking. Regardless, I'm enjoying the heck out of my projects, and look forward to building the new house. Since I will be doing the contracting myself, any good luck wishes from those of you who were smart enough to avoid this fate will be most appreciated!
Mark
Jom B, any good source for glazing panels? Sealed double glazed at decent prices? In fact, a web site with prices? Joe H
I get my glass from the local glass shop, Joe. I pay about 8.00/square foot for single on single strength, 3/4" overall - same price for 1/8 on 1/8.
I was just reading a thing about the seals on thermal glazed units. If they are put together at sea level, for example, then installed at a higher elevation, they have found seals deteriorated because of the elevation difference. Even just transporting them through a mountain pass can jepordize the seal. I guess this really creates problems with low e, and argon filled units. Something I never would have thought of, but I'm sure glad I've always paid the higher prices for locally laid up units.