How to prevent router chipping laminate?
When the guy I often work with does final routing on a laminate (“Formica”) counter top, invariably the router will chip the edge of the laminate–usually only once or twice, but is there a way to prevent this? I think he needs to buy new bits, or sharpen those he has. His solution, after it chips, is to hose the collet and bit down with WD40. A lot of glue does seem to build up, so maybe that is the answer.
Incidentally, the other day I was watching him route and the thought came to me, what happens if he hasn’t tightened the collet enough, or whatever, and the bit comes out? About fifteen minutes later I hear him cursing and I go into the kitchen–the little nut that holds the bearing on totally fell out, but the bearing stayed on and more importantly, he didn’t wreck the counter he had just installed! (He found one of the washers and I find the other and the nut–which was amazing because the floor was littered with tools, sawdust, shavings, etc..) [I guess I need to listen to these seemingly stray thoughts–problem is, when I work with him, I have so many warning bells and sirens go off I would be unable to work if I listened to all of them!]
Replies
Has he tried using these?
http://www.amanatool.com/bits-fv/47150.html
That pretty much looks like what he uses--sometimes he'll rub the corners with 400 grit sandpaper after he's through routing, but no filing. I don't see how a stuck or not freely spinning bearing would cause chips. I suppose glue in the rest of the router could cause it to vary in speed and cause chips, but I am thinking a dull bit is more likely the cause. He treats his bits poorly--tosses them on concrete floors, throws them loose into the case with other bits and wrenches and spare collets and so on. I am constantly amazed that he has the good luck he does. If I took care of my tools the way he does, nothing would work! [And his bad luck of having the toilet tank flip and drop onto the tile floor followed by the good luck of only crushing one small tile at the edge of the flange just blew my mind!]
The only time I've chipped formicate was when the bit was turning too slow as it entered the material, like if I didn't let the motor spin up completely.
Do you know about palm grip laminate trimmers? They're much better suited to trimming formica than a standard router. There are several types of bases. Mine has a clear donut base, small and easy to see the bit.
You can find laminate timmers on http://www.amazon.com
Edited 6/9/2007 1:20 pm ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
HIJACK ALERT, I have always had trouble with the bearings on the laminate trimmer bits burning the laminate edge band . I have tried scraping excess glue off the underside of the top laminate, WD 40 on the bearing surfaces and cleaning it often during a cut, using a stick lubricant on the edge band and I still have problems. What do you all do to prevent this from occurring? I have fought this issue for years and it still is a crap shoot as to whether I can trim the top without a burn mark showing up on the face.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Many ways to prevent that.
I learned few tricks from the MGI. ( don't ask...)
A. Electrical tape on the face and WD-40 on the bit every 4-5 feet.
Remove the tape, clean the glue and do the final pass with a clean bit.
Wax the face for the final pass.
david.
Edited 6/9/2007 1:33 pm ET by davidwood
Edited 6/9/2007 1:36 pm ET by davidwood
No bearing bit, and vaseline.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I've always used the vaseline, too, but a friend of mine swears by Crisco, applied liberally........ummm, sounds a bit like a Mazola party, eh? But that's a different subject.
Thanks--I'll look at the palm grip laminate trimmers.
The chips bothe happened in the middle of runs, so I don't think it's that he's not letting it wind up to speed before starting the cut. Maybe stuff like that just happens.
Glue build up kills the bearings! After I have glued on the edges I cover with blue tape. apply the glue and top sheet of laminate. Remove the blue tape with the over spray glue. Next trim the edges with a good trim bit. At the bearing supply house you can get replacement bearings for a $1 each. Wd 40 will also clean out the lube in the bearings leading to short life.
What Calvin says except I use a soft wax stick, never have burn marks or chip outs.
Doug
Thanks for all the replies--I'll see if I can get him to use some of them. Chipping is a PITA!
His bits may be old but there are bits available specifically for laminate work. Carbide works well for this stuff.
If he sets off warnings for you, it's probably his feed rate or the collet may be bent.
Cut oversize, finish with a climb-cut
He does cut oversize, but finishes with just a regular small roundover bit. I'll see about the climb-cut you mentioned.
finishes with just a regular small roundover bit
This could be the problem, unless he's using a wood nosing.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
1. 99% of the time chips are from a dull or damaged bit.
2. WD 40 will help get the glue off, but as someone said the bearing will be toast because you've also stripped out the lubrication. You need to get some router bearing oil. It stays put even with the high speed and temps. It's great for all your bearing bits, not just laminate bits.
And the collet should not be getting oiled, it should be clean and dry. Wipe it dry after the oil bath.
3. For trimming laminate you'll do much better with a bit that uses a square block of teflon in place of a bearing. Glue doesn't stick to it and you'll never burn the edge laminate again. No spinning bearing to leave a burnt line.
4. I use those shallow plastic parts cases for all my bits. Maybe 2" x 6" x 10". One bit to a cubbyhole. No damage and easy to find what I need.
I use my router alot and I've got bits that are 10 years old and they still cut well...buic
BUIC,
Where do you find those bits with the Teflon bearing surface. I have never seen or heard of them . Sounds like the ticket though."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Edited 6/11/2007 9:06 pm by dovetail97128
McFeelys is one easy online source. I get them from a local tool store.
1/4" Shank 1/2"D x 5/16"L Shank Euro Bit for Laminate TrimmersLT6-4116
View Image
» Tools » Routers, Bits and Accessories » Router Bits » Laminate Trim Bit$19.96 View Image View Image
(Not a Product of CMT)
Teflon¯ Bearing Eliminates Glue FoulingA square bearing may look ridiculous, but the performance is nothing but spectacular. Most bearings quickly foul with the contact cement used to glue down high pressure laminates. That results in scratching, wavy edges, or burned edges. The square Teflon bearing-bushing simply slides along the countertop edge, so burning and glue fouling are a thing of the past. The new Laminate Trimmer bit is designed with the smaller cutting diameter and shorter cutting height needed for use in the smaller trim routers typically used for counter top work. These bits are not CMT! Made in New Zealand.
Usage
Shank Dia.
Cut Dia. (D)
Cut Length (L)
Order #
Standard Routers
1/4"
3/4"
9/16"
LT6-4016
Laminate Trimmers
1/4"
1/2"
5/16"
LT6-4116
Euro Laminate Trimmer Replacement Bearings
3/4" Dia. Standard Replacement Bearing
Order # LT6-0016
1/2" Dia. Laminate Trimmer Repl. Bearing
Order # LT6-0116
$19.96 View Image
BUIC, Thanks for the info. I will file that away for the next time."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Edited 6/12/2007 1:28 am by dovetail97128
Thank you. Sounds most plausible to me that it is dull bit--like I said, he just throws them loose in the case, drops them on the concrete garage floor, etc.. He is very careless with his tools. The Teflon block sounds good too--I'll mention all of this to him, but he seldom listens to me. When he's struggling to cut something with his battery powered recip. saw and the batter is almost dead, I'll even go and get my plug-in Makita and he won't use it. He's very obstinate.
[Yesterday he had to tile and old countertop--one that he had put in a while ago. Turns out he had glued and screwed 3/4 x 3/4 Novaply under the edges of 3/4 Novaply, so he decided to just cut the whole edge off by 3/4". (So he could add tile backer, which IMO is not necessary. Decides we have to take the top to his shop which is like 12 miles away. Gingerly load the counter top into his truck using my suggestion of borrowing the customer's extension ladder to reinforce it so it doesn't break at the sink cutout (couter top was 14' long). Tie it to ladder, ladder to truck and drive to his shop--I follow in my car because his truck seat and floor is too full of junk for me to ride with him.
Get to his shop, pull the counter partly out of back and put end up on a saw horse he had there, then takes the saw he had in the truck, trims it and we drive back. Wasn't until last night I realized the whole trip was for nothing--could have done the whole job on the site! The only thing we lacked was the saw horse! We did use a table saw at the shop to trim a smaller countertop too. Oh, and when we got back to site, he forgot to throw smaller top in truck, so had to go back and get it. That's when I decided I was done for the day!]
For $20 you might want to pick one up for you to use. Maybe if he sees one in action he'll want one....
Naahhh, he doesn't sound like he shives a git. Good luck with him anyway....
By the way a plastic 35mm film canister makes a great "case" for small individual bits. Drill a 1/4" hole in the top for the shaft and it's fully protected while it bounces around your tool box...buic
Edited 6/12/2007 4:34 pm ET by BUIC
Good ideas--I don't currently own a small laminate trimmer router, but I do have a regular router and the idea for the bits in the film canister is a good one--I have lots of empty canisters lying around.