hey,yall
i`m about to build my first round deck.
usually i charge material x2 on decks,
should i charge more for the round?
whats the average sqft $ for decks around hampton roads va?
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red... you mean if you have $1000 in materials , you charge $2000 for labor...so the deck costs $3000 ?
how do you stay in business ?
if materials are 1000 i charge 2000
uh...oh... it's getting worser
do you keep records ... do you know how many man hours it takes you to build a typical deck ?
suppose your typical deck is 10x14 ( 140 sf).. with a railing ... and 3' above grade with a 5 riser stair
you can get a handle on rough SF cost for material...... and labor..
round decks are going to take more material ( more waste ) and double the labor
here's a hint... what do you care what others are building them for in Hampton ,Va ?
figure out what you need to make a profit.. and sell your job for thatMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
gotcha on the hint
i`ve been doing this type of work for about ten years or so,
but only on my own for less than a year my biggest problem so far has been
the bidding i`ll get the hang of this one of these days
Red,I'm not in business for myself yet, but the business folder on this forum and the Journal of Light Construction's forums have helped me a lot.
if you've been doing it for 10 years, you should be able to build it in your head.. so many days for this part... so many days for that part.. etc..
got to be brutally honest with yourself... DON'T assume the best case.. assume the worst..
that will give you a handle on your labor,
materials are easy
once you know your man hours and materials ( and any sub work )
you can price the job.. add for overhead.. add for profit.. bottom line is YOUR price..
and don't forget.. the money that's left at the end is for YOUR family.. put a picture of your family on the desk... it'll help you think about selling the job for what it's worth , rather than what you think they'll spendMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"got to be brutally honest with yourself... DON'T assume the best case.. assume the worst.."
should we copy and paste this line into the "how long it take U" thread about a bath remodel.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
you should frame it and put it over your deskMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
don't have too ...
it's already tattoo'd on the inside of my eyelids ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
............use ROUND numbers?
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Eighteen hundred posts, and you FINALLY say something funny!Good laugh, Eric.
oh c'mon, you just ain't been following along!
edit: Not everyone 'gets' my sense of humor.
My wife does, (well, most of the time) maybe that's why she agreed to marry me!
Perhaps it's a bit cynical at times...........just ask Mike Smith, he'll tell ya!
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Edited 2/14/2005 8:26 pm ET by Eric Paulson
Don`t let him git to ya....he`s up over seven grand...we`re still waiting!J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Me? Let a fellow BT'r get to ME??
Never happen...............
But the guy building round decks with that estimating system he's got..........he don't don't know comin' to him!!!
yeeeee-haaaa!!!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
That cracked me up !! wme (ah...wiping my eyes)
GB
That was hysterical. Brilliantly funny. I actually did Laugh Out Loud.
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In round figures, obviously!
Day late and a dollar short, Dan.
Yeah, that's often my fate.
Jeesus Red... Lift the barrel of the gun a bit...ahuh, no... another foot higher.
Here you go... here's 40,000 worth of round deck. (finishing in.. all materials dried, sanded- pre-stained), laminated curve edge and even the supports for the skirting using West System Epoxy.
Was going to upload the photo...but something isn't working... Here's a link.
Big Curved deck... (700 sq') Phase two this spring... A serious pergola attached on the far side... This was built by our Associate in Burlington Ontario... Zsolt Karner
You won't sell jobs like that easily without changing some things that you are doing.
Mike Smith knows what I am talking about. I don't know what kind of experience selling you have, what sales tools you have developed or what you do for marketing... but some slick versions of each are required to sell someone a $50,000 deck...
Good Luck Red!
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
A rule of thumb is triple the labor for the round work. I have had a few round projects and it has worked out well.
Like Mike pointed out, if you want to get it sooner instead of later, learn that the cost of your labour has nothing to do with what the cost of the materials is.
For round or curving work, depending on how extensive the detailing is, the labour is going to run three to ten times aas much for round as for a similar sized rectilinear for me. I build it in my head to come up with the hours inviolved and add for errors when I haven't done it before.
materials waste will run an extra fifteen to fifty percent more than rectilinear work.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Sub it out. Add 50% to sub price for you. Move on. Tyr
Geez just the other day I in the PRICING GUIDE FOR TRIM SUBS topic I wrote:
I was even thinking at the time I wrote it "at least no one here (in the Breaktime forums) has ever said they use the materials cost times X factor to estimate with" and low and behold look what happens.
Red if the Materials X 2 pricing method has worked for you in the past it's only because you were lucky. SF estimating is dangerous too. You might want to read my paper The Hidden Dangers of Square Foot Estimating. The example I use in the paper is coincidentally a deck too. Still even that would be better than the materials cost times X factor.
As for a round or curved deck the technique used to achieve the look will affect the labor/time and materials involved depending upon what techniques you choose. For instance just laying a square deck then cutting the surface on a curve is obviously very inexpensive and virtually the same cost as the square deck it's cut from. However if you have to fabricate a curved fascia or band joist or laminate a curved railing you are talking about a lot more time and additional materials. We've developed specific costs for doing our curved work but have found the curved components such as railings cost anywhere from 3 to 20 times the labor cost of their common straight versions. That's a pretty big range so without knowing what you are thinking regarding how and what is round it's impossible to help you out on that one.
As for figuring out a how long a deck might take you you might want to start by developing estimates (productivity rates) for these activities.
(price varies according to soil conditions)
LF
(price varies according to joist sizing & spacing)
(price varies according to angle and/or decking patterns)
The data I pulled from one of the RS means estimating books I have I think is on the low side. Certainly the railing number is compared to what we actually use but it's at least a starting point for you to work from. You extend the times out based on those productivity rates and then if you come up with something that says it will take you 9 labor hours to install the joist for the deck and it sounds right to you you use it as your number. If not tweak it until you get the right number. Annd remember to break out the curved work separately and you just have to SWAG (Scientific Wild A$$ed Guess) that number somewhere in the range of 3 to 20 time more than the standard work.
Then take the total hours and multiply that number by your billing rate. And PS don't forget to account for the time it takes you to draw up a plan, file for a permit, go and get the materials, set-up the job, and take down the job too.
Do you have a hourly billing rate set up for your labor? How did you come up with it?
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Nice work Jerrald,
Here's a new one... we don't get permits either. If they want us to sit there and make nicey nicey with the mostly inept building department plan examiners they have to pay us a steep hourly rate which accounts not only for the time in the building dept, but also the time to drive there and lost working hours on site-because I will be sending one of my carpenters or helpers... I have better things to do.
This spring... 95/ hour for obtaining permits. Last year it was 85.
Clients don't mind doing it... besides most of ours are professionals that understand the plans anyhow.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!