Just finished a bath remodel…..powder room actually. Plumber installed fixtures on Monday. I went back to touch up paint on Tuesday and noticed a small burn mark on the hardwood floor just in front of the toilet. Its about the size of a cigarette head, but I`m certain that is not what it is. I believe the plumber must have placed his torch down for a second and caused it, but I have no eye witnesses. Homeowner hasn`t mentioned it.
I`m wondering how you guys would deal with this. Forget about it and hope the HO never notices? Deduct some arbitrary dollar amount from plumbers final payment? Wait to see if HO ever notices and then try and convince them to live with it?
Whatcha think?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
“DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE”
Replies
So you're saying there's hardwood floor in the bathroom?
I predict inside of five years, that floor will have a lot more stains and marks on it than just a little burn spot. Unless, they never use the toilet.
Ask the H.O. what they want to do about it. I'd tell you to let it go - character, ya know. Of course, I wouldn't be stoopid enough to put hardwood in my bathroom anyway.
I predict inside of five years, that floor will have a lot more stains and marks on it than just a little burn spot. Unless, they never use the toilet.
I`ve got hardwood in the powder room of my own house......looks just as good as the day it was installed (8 yrs.).
Perhaps us "stoopid" folk have better aim?J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Can you explain the difference between a 'powder room' and a bathroom? I guess maybe I don't understand.
Not calling any names. I've got to think that maintaining a hardwood floor in front of a toilet to like-new condition has got to be either amazing diligence or lack of use. I would *never* put hardwood, or any kind of wood, in a bathroom. My father-in-law had wide-plank pine throughout a former residence, and each bathroom, regardless of frequency of use, had black stains radiating out from the base of each toilet. I have never seen a toilet installed over wood where either the subfloor or the finish floor weren't somehow stained or damaged.
I think you're lucky (and you have good aim). :) Lucky that your toilet seal hasn't leaked yet.
I use the term powder room to describe a half bath...no tub, no shower.
I would never consider installing hardwood in a full bath....but I`ve never had any problems doing so in a half bath.
Yes certain diligence is required in maintaining hardwood floors in this application....as would be in say a kitchen that sees high traffic and occasional spills.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Please, don't take this the wrong way, ok?You've always made a point of letting everybody here know just how responsible you are. If it really isn't a knot, you're the contractor, you see a problem, fix it. Hey, these foks trusted you to do the job, right? It doesn't really matter who did it, or how. You are esponsible for whoever you hire. Just one of those things. If you want to lay monetary responsibility on someone, do it after you fix it.Now, even I can re-finish one funky board in a floor, but is that really what you want to know how to do?Hey, every job has something that backs things up, slows things down, or costs somebody that's not really responsible some bucks. Ya gotta price accordingly<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Dead on snort...that`s exactly the advice I was looking for!
While I try and catch any potential red flags ahead of the homeowner and attention them before they were noticed, this one really caught me off guard. Fingerprints on the wainscotting...paint touch up on the walls...maybe even some plumbers putty stuck to the floor. Those are the things I was expecting to find when I went back there on Tuesday, as it was immaculate when I left the plumber there on Monday. But a damned burn in the hardwood?!
Yer right.....I`ll take care of it immediately....before HO ever sees it. I`ll backcharge the plumber whatever it costs me in T&M.
Don`t know why I needed it...but thanks for the kick in the tail!
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
We have wide pine plank flooring throughout the first floor, including the half bath/powder room/whateveryouwantotcallit, and the floor gleams like it was finished yesterday, only it's been 20 years. In fact, it's the best looking part of the flooring, cuz the toilet overhang prevents any wear...
You're right though, leaks will definitely kill a wood floor in a bath/powder...whatever.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
White pine is not a hardwoodit is more susceptible to water damage for sure, and I would hesitate to use it in a bathroom.around here, a powder room is the room with just a toilet and a washbaasin and mittor, generally for guests and such near the dining and living rooms where one entertains. The place where ladies go to "powder" their whatevers.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Jaybird
It sounds like you got stuck by a sub. Fix it. You are the one the client will remember. They will appreciate your attention to the little details. you never know who they might talk to so give them nothing but a positive experience with you. I might also think twice about hiring a sub I suspected of such behavior again. I had a similar experience about two years ago. It cost me $400 to make it right for my customer but was called back for two additional jobs. I never used that sub again.
good luck
You just don't know how to do hardwood it sounds like. We do it all the time, and I have worked on houses over a hundred years old without water damage to the hardwood bathroom floors.
Yes, it can be a little more work to install and take care of, but it is a beautiful floor for those that like them. No need to go off calling everyone with different tastes and abilities than yours, "Stupid"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
din't mean to get anyone bent out of shape, nor insult anyone.
i have seen too many damaged hardwood floors than undamaged ones in bathrooms. as for taste, you're right. no way i'd ever put it in a bathroom or anywhere there's a significant chance of water damage.
as for ability - i never said a word about my ability, or lack thereof, just what i've seen.
sorry.
jon... jay has a thick skin .... and paul's bark is worse than his bite....
not to worry.... hard to post in here without setting off someone's sensitivity meterMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Take a digital photo of it for your records. Then I would ask the plumber about it. After that, proceed as you see fit.
Maybe the HO put it there and that's why it hasn't been brought up. ???
Does the HO smoke?
Sounds like it's in a location that would be obvious and likely seen.
HO doesn`t smoke.....nor does the plumber.
I suspect it hasn`t been noticed as it almost appears to be part of the floor.....a small knot.
Were I less ethical, I`d be able to tell them just that. Besides, my poker face aint all that great.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Do either the dog or the cat smoke?Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
LOLJ. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I would sand it out and refinish that part of the floor.
The HO will notice it sooner or later. You will be blamed.
Somebody has made a mistake and that person should take care of it. Nobody wins if the HO is unhappy.
Besides - who makes a visible error like that and then walks away from it with out saying something? You have been left holding the bag.
I would sand it out and refinish that part of the floor.
I was thinking along those lines....I`m a little afraid that attempting to do so might actually cause more headaches than the burn mark. If that one peice doesn`t finish precisely as the rest of the floor, its going to draw more attention than it does now. And its been my experience that once you`re looking for defects (imperfections), you`re sure to find them.
Besides - who makes a visible error like that and then walks away from it with out saying something?
I agree......I`m wondering if the plumber is even aware. He`s typically quite good at being straightforward. Haven`t had the chance to speak to him about it as of yet.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Does the mark look like the edge of a small, hot cylindrical item was the cause? Is it indented? Rough to the touch? Leave residue on a clean white item rubbed against it? Do you know for sure it wasn't there when you started the job? Or appeared during the job but before the plumber arrived and was not noticed? Might not be a burn. Could be a chemical stain.
A quick call, right NOW, to the plumber to get his take and then, if he owns up to it, go over the job, punch list style, with the customer and point out the mark, take ownership of the problem and work out a fix.
If you honestly can't pin it down, go over the job, punch list style, with the customer and point out the mark. Ask the customer if he remembers whether or not that mark was on the floor. He might say, "Yeah, it was there", or "Yeah, I did that sometime during the remodel", or "No, that's a new mark and I don't know how it got there".
The first two answers get you off the hook and the third transfers ownership to you right then and there and you could say that you thought so but don't know how it happened but it's going to be made right. And do it!
Then (or before) present the homeowner (wife?) with a set of bath towels and hand towels that compliment your work and hang them on the new rods.
You seem to think highly of the plumber, so he probably feels the same way about you. I would guess that your instinct that the incident went unnoticed is correct, but should be discussed.
If the mark only affected the finish, you should probably be able to get an answer from the manufacturer. This would be a common problem on wood floors.If it went deeper, I think it is still fixable. I would mention it to the HO only if you have had a chance to work through it. That way you will be able to give the HO the most reasonable options.
Good luck.
I had some minor flaws in my work recently. I am not humble about my framing ability, although there are many things I don't know; however, as a finish carpenter and floor installer, I am probably average, maybe a bit above, from what I read here. I pointed out the flaws and the HO said "Nobody's perfect", and we left it at that. Up until that point I was wrestling with how I was going to make the job perfect. What a relief!
There's a Japanese concept that says that humans aren't perfect. Everything they craft has at least one small insignificant flaw.
Is it even that noticeable? As an electrician, my professional recomendation is to install a 15 watt light bulb. Maybe leave the toilet unflushed. Tune a jobsite radio to a rap station and let it loudly blare.
~Peter
Thanks all!
Most of you suggested what I already knew.
I`ll take care of it right away!J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
By all means, tell the HO. It will pay in the long run. They may have already noticed it yet are afraid or unwilling to tell you. The silent dissatisfaction is what loses jobs. They may not tell you but they might tell others. Who knows....they may not be bothered by it.
Face it..........you'll be better for it.
Mike L.
I would put talking at the top of my list.
.
I would not take money out of th epluimber's check witghout talking to him first, pointing it out, and gutting out his reaction. It is possible that he didn't know he had done it, but will own up and help pay the repair.And I would talk to the HO first, letting them know that I was ready to refinish the room, but I have had clients who would have prefered not to have any more mess going on for such a small spot and willing to take a couple bills instead for an 'adjustment'.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Is it a solid hardwood floor or an engineered laminate floor? If it solid hardwood you may have some success lightly scraping the burn mark to lighten it up. If it is not too noticeable now lightening it up may make it disappear. Use a fresh single edge razor. Then apply polyurethane finish with a small fine brush. If the floor is a laminate you're screwed.
Forget the plumber you are responsible as the contractor to the owner, fix it, I think you could sand it out and refinish. Your the boss, fix it and deal with the plumber later.
I wish I had a buck for everything the subs have damaged in a finished house, walls, paint, trim did I say paint, counter tops, carpet, paint did I mentioned finished paint yet?
Cindy Crawford has a little black spot on her face and no one would even consider removing that. Maybe your customers see this as "character" also. I wouldn't jump to conclusions and open a can of worms. Maybe they have one of those toilet bib type rugs and they'll never see it anyway. You didn't do it and at the point you saw it the customer had probably begun to use it since the plumbing was all hooked up, so not bringing it up won't be evil of you.
Were it a knot..or any natural "imperfection"...the Crawford analogy would hold up.
Should the HO reply that they consider it character, I`ll be off the hook.....until then, it needs fixin`.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I'm just curious why a plumber was ever torching on top of a wood floor?? Were it my job, the floor would have been covered with a dropcloth cut to fit the room (the non-slip, water-tight gray stuff from dropcloth.com.... indispensible), and then a layer of 1/8" luaun also cut to fit the room. You'd have to drop the toilet on it to make a dent. Anytime much dust gets made then I take both layers out, vacuum everything, and replace. You can't make a nickel as a contractor if you funk up the existing finishes. A job I just estimated has about 40% of the cost in site protection and difficult access issues.