Hurricane House – How would you build it
toolbear
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Hurricane House:
If you wanted to build yourself a house in Florida, where hurricanes are a yearly occurance, what would you build? Concrete block or wood frame or ___?
How would you keep the roof on?
What about the windows and doors?
Going to include a tornado shelter inside? How built?
Include a generator system for those weeks without power?
Replies
Retain Cloud Hidden to design a concrete dome house for you. Fireproof, windproof, earthquake resistant.
Or simply a well-built house, of any construction, with the members, connectors and fasteners spec'ed for the desired wind speed. Not hard to do. Just far from universal in the Florida housing market.
And whatever you build, import 100 to 200 yards of fill and site the house 3-4 feet above the terrain. In addition to avoiding floods during storms, you'd have a another decade or so before global warming / rising sea level forces you out.
"In addition to avoiding floods during storms, you'd have a another decade or so before global warming / rising sea level forces you out."
My parents have been down in FL for over 20 years (having moved a couple of days after I graduated High School). They live about 15 minutes from the ocean and I keep telling them that someday they are going to have waterfront property.
This is a topic that I think about everyday being on the gulf coast. 1 1/2 miles from the gulf.
I built mine out of concrete block with the block filled to peak of gable with concrete. I also have a metal roof on 5/8 plywood screwed every two feet.
But I also have question, how does engineer know how much force an house can take? any sites?
"This is a topic that I think about everyday being on the gulf coast. 1 1/2 miles from the gulf. "
That puts you what, 4 feet above sea level?
My house is 180 feet from the Pacific Ocean. But up 65 feet. In 5 years we have lost about 1/5 of an acre. But still have about 100+ years to go.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Just had to get one of those bluff lots didn't ya? :-)
You should have a good view of Mt. Spurr when she blows. Which could be any day now.
Sorry for gettin off topic, Dave
I used to live 330' from the North Atlantic. 1,003' up. We had 200 mph strraight line winds once. The bird flew, but we stayed. Did see a 55 gal drum of oil fly by, didnt go out to get it.
"200 mph winds"
I've only ever experienced 136 mph (Dutch Harbor, Alaska). But I was working outside at the beginning of the day. I do a lot of fieldwork. I'm used to chasing paperwork and coffee cups around in the wind.
But I was chasing tool boxes and pipe wrenches. We decided it was time to quit for the day when the driller cracked open his pick-up truck door. It landed 50 feet away!David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
We had 100 mph winds (unusual for here--not hurricane area) when I worked for a county planning dept. here in Michigan. That day, a guy I worked with and I went out to measure a lot in the country that the county was going to do something with. We couldn't hold the 100' tape tight enough to really get a measurement. Got in my car and had little drifts of dust here and there. Wind blew 12' pieces of aluminum fascia off a five story highrise the county owned. They, fortunately, landed in a corn field, burried nearly half their length in the mud.
I would add two things to the hurricane house,
1) Cistern in a seperate above ground bunker to catch rain water
2) But up sacrificial walls/fences around the perimeter of the property to help absorb some of the impact of the wind, and flying debris, and to help disappate the force of the water. The only problem though is storm surge is a real pain in the butt, and MA nature always wins. The best design for a hurricane house is something that is built in wyoming, but dont they have blizzards, twisters and bears?
Storm Surge...
Always wondered why one could not build something on a barge secured with pilings (aside from the county having a fit). Water rises, barge rises. Useful on the rivers where they seem to get flooded out quite often. In SE Asia a lot of stuff is build on pilings.
Can be done. I'm sitting 150' from a pair of houseboats here in Friday Harbor.
A cistern would be a mighty expensive way to store water if it wasn't otherwise needed.
Any fence other than a poured concrete or block would be sacrificial as it would be the first thing to blow over. I have a friend who had just finished a 6' stockade fence the week before Charley hit. Every post snapped at the ground.
USA Today weather had a link to a FEMA site. They have a web page or two devoted to the topic and bunch of engineering and such on storm shelters. They give the specs for the various components. The pamphlet is FEMA 320.
They are showing a shelter built of concrete using foam forms.
Another take was the use of plywood covering the stud walls inside with conc. blocks drystacked inside the stud bays (agains missiles, I reckon).
We found that a 2x4 stud wall filled with 3/4 washed drain rock (not gravel, pea gravel or crushed) is very bullet proof. Tried it with an elephant rifle. Wall won. Built a 2x6 version for a chronograph baffle at an IPSC tournament. Thousands of round of hi vel ammo into a 3x3" area. No shoot thrus. Now, will it stop a 2x4 doing 100k?
Retain Cloud Hidden to design a concrete dome house for you. Fireproof, windproof, earthquake resistant.
Love ya, David!!! Though I'll change all the "proof"s to "resistant". Under-promise, over-deliver.
This one was on Good Morning America this week...
View Image
Have a new project in FL--my biggest yet--specifically be/c of the hurricane issue.
"Or simply a well-built house, of any construction, with the members, connectors and fasteners spec'ed for the desired wind speed. Not hard to do. Just far from universal in the Florida housing market."
The statement that the construction practices you mention is not universal in Florida is not correct. Actually just the opposite is true. That is the only way you can build a house in Florida. A wood frame house here now looks more like it was done with metal due to the large number of clips and anchors. I see many new frame houses with threaded rods from the footer to the roof every 5 or 6 feet. However, the vast majority of Florida houses are CBS with poured 16" tie beams and have been for at least the past 30 years. Straps are embedded in the tie beams and nailed to and folded over the trusses. When these houses fail it has generally been due to lack of truss bracing and poor nailing patterns on the plywood decking.
"And whatever you build, import 100 to 200 yards of fill and site the house 3-4 feet above the terrain."
That too is status quo and has been for many years. I'm building a house in one of the highest areas of the county and still had to put in a 36 inch house pad. All houses on the beaches and islands have to be on pilings.
Raised Foundations or Pads...
We did a house on the LaConner flood plain and it had to have a walk-in crawlspace to raise it up. Almost standing head room under there. Wing walls out front held the fill for the driveway ramp.
However, having seen the place when the Skagit returned to it's former channel (Old Slough), I'd want one too. Four feet of cold, muddy water for miles. In the winter. Not fun.
My mother and father-in-law live in Fl. and near the beaches, houses where they live are required to be on stilts or have no living space on ground floor. You see lots of pretty interesting plans with open decks, car ports and so on under the house proper.
I would go with concrete dome or tube, maybe even gunite on a very strong steel armature. Foam insulated. Honda power generator. Roof would then be integral with walls. Big shutters to close over windows. Doors maybe like used on boats if I could afford them--maybe some porthole-type windows. Landscaping and piers to redirect water. Probably have a tornado shelter room (core grouted concrete block) in center of house. Have seen demos where they fire 2x4's from a cannon at these to simulate 200 mph wind blown debris and wasn't damaged. For starters. Nice thing about concrete or masonry in Fl is resistance to termites, bugs, rot, etc.
@@@ Big shutters to close over windows.
One of the homes down the channel from this location (San Juan Islands, WA) has a roll-down industrial steel door that covers all the sliding glass front when they are away. Very tempting. Quick to deploy.
The point was made that heading to the Depot for ply and such when you get a warning puts you too late. Who wants to be on a ladder, installing 3/4 ply panels in 20+k of wind? They suggested screws every 18" for the shutters. There are doubtless more efficient ways to handle this. Slide into steel C channels, well secured, etc.
Always amazed as the locals rush to purchase supplies. I would think that they would be on hand, fitted, with all the parts, spare screws and screw drivers, ready to go. This may be a minority viewpoint.
For those with the bucks, consider lexan shutters. Have them on the boat as storm shutters (you get slamed on your side, the windows tend to get blown inward).
@@@Doors maybe like used on boats if I could afford them--maybe some porthole-type windows.
I suspect you are thinking of doggable watertight hatches and such. They are available. Might go better on the storm shelter.
For portholes, you want the whole thing - which is a Big Boat/Ship affair. The traditional one has a opening porthole which dogs onto a watertight gasket - and a metal cover which dogs onto the porthole. But this is inside, so it's not going to prevent a missle from breaking the glass in the porthole.
Landscaping and piers to redirect water. Probably have a tornado shelter room (core grouted concrete block) in center of house. Have seen demos where they fire 2x4's from a cannon at these to simulate 200 mph wind blown debris and wasn't damaged. For starters. Nice thing about concrete or ma
sonry in Fl is resistance to termites, bugs, rot, etc.
While in the Bahamas I saw a great Lexan shutter system. It had permanent tracks mounted above and below the window frames. The lexan shutters slid in at storm time. I'll try to find the trade specs.
Me, I'm looking to a move to the coast. And, while I think those domes are on the outer space side of strange looking, they definitley have the survival thing going for them...just gotta figure out how to cedar shingle them<G> none the less, when I'm ready to move, I'm talking to Cloud Don't worry, we can fix that later!
@@@ Concrete domes
Had a friend built something similar in Montrose, CO. Three half cylinders of concrete, earth covered. Nice view of the San Juan Mts. and easy to heat.
For those with no aversion to corregated metal, the navy SAM - steel arched magazine system - has proved very resistant to disturbance. They proved this at China Lake when they fired off 100,000# of cyclonite in the center of three mags. The walls adjacent were bowed inward a bit and the floor slabs cracked. The center unit went about 900' upward and the door headed west at a high rate of speed.
I think your post was truncated, but got most of it. Yeah, wife and I were saying it seemed weird that year after year of hurricanes and the people are still running to HD to get overpriced plywood and then have to wonder how to attach it, etc. We were wondering why they didn't have sheets of it stored and have a permanent system for affixing it over windows. Her parents who live down there have the metal shutters. All you do is push a button, they roll down and you're secure.
Guess you;re right that I'd still have to protect portholes from shattering. Maybe Lexan over them. This is just a mental exercise anyway--who cares how expensive the solution is.
I did try to convince wife's brother who lives near Palm City to build his house out of concrete using the steel and foam forms that stay after concrete is poured, but he used convention construction. He may have had moments of doubting the wisdom of that this weekend, but last news was that he only lost five pine trees.
I'd build it from ICF's. The window and door frames would be anchored into the concrete with stainless steel studs. The roof would be a hip roof, with fairly short overhangs and a ridge vent. The roof would be anchored and sheathed per code. It would be equipped with hurricane shutters and windows that meet the Dade County wind resistance standards. The garage would be attached, with the wall between the garage and the house also of concrete, which would go up to the roof decking.
I would follow the advice of the Fine Homebuilding article linked on the home page.
I would not waste money on a generator. I went through the ice storm of '98 in upstate New York. We had no electricity for a week (in January), and many had none for 3 weeks. Loosing power for more than an hour or so only happens every few decades, and, unless someone has a medical necessity for power, doing without is not too bad. You just eat stuff that doesn't need to be cooked or can be boiled over a kerosene heater or wood stove.
Ever since the Cuban Missile Crisis, when dad was called away on reserves and mom was home with a two year old and a newborn, filling the basement windows with sandbags like everyone in the neighborhood, we've kept around 10 gallons of water in the house at all times. She would fill empty bleach bottles with water (without rinsing) until we had enough. To this day, I still do.
Keep a thousand dollars or so in cash securely put away. It's hard to use a credit card and ATM's don't work or get replenished when there is no power or telecommunications and banks are closed. Everyone takes cash.
Check out Chuck Miller's article "Hurricane Warnings," written in 1992 in the wake of Hurricane Andrew. We just trotted it out late last week. Ruth DobsevageTaunton New Media
@@@ Gen sets and lights and such
"would not waste money on a generator. I went through the ice storm of '98 in upstate New York. We had no electricity for a week (in January), and many had none for 3 weeks. Loosing power for more than an hour or so only happens every few decades, and, unless someone has a medical necessity for power, doing without is not too bad. You just eat stuff that doesn't need to be cooked or can be boiled over a kerosene heater or wood stove."
I live on a boat in the summer, so I am used to being off the grid. Even then, I use the boat's engine to charge the batteries every other day if not moving. Solar will also work, but it takes about 2 panels (and sun). Now, a wind generator would work. The ice box is an ice box, with 4-6" of foam, holding 100# of blocks.
A gen set is useful for the storm bound. It's rather expensive to put in enough gen set and cross over system to power some essential circuits, but up in Bellingham, WA in the winter it has uses. They are often off the grid for a week or more - and the average gas furnace wants some 110 AC to run. The smart ones have wood heating.
One that will run a saw will also charge batteries for the radio, cell phone, laptop, TV (got to stay tuned to those bulletins). As for lights, we camp with new LED headlights. The new battery fluoresecent lanterns are great and the traditional barn lantern is the way to go in kerosene
We cook on propane or a one burner Coleman backpacker stove.
After one of these stoems, I suspect it's smart to plan on camping out or in for a week or two.
The other thing I'd do is to ban new mobile homes outright in Florida. They cause so much tragedy to the folks who live in them as well as damage to nearby homes, cleanup costs to taxpayers, and insurance costs to ratepayers that I would forbid them like we do now for other types of dangerous and substandard housing.
>> ... damage to nearby homes, cleanup costs to taxpayers, and insurance costs ...
Gonna ban trees, too?
No, I wouldn't ban trees. Trees falling on structures cause a very tiny fraction of damage. But mobile homes are intentionally disposable, and are built with the full knowledge that they don't provide adequate shelter for the climate in which they are employed. And nearly every single home subjected to hurricane force winds is damaged or destroyed. I would not allow them for the same reason I would not allow people to string bare electrical wires all over their house, or dump their sewage in their front yard.
And the people who can't afford to live in a real house are supposed to do what? Sleep in their cars? Move out of state? Spend their food money on rent?
the price of a new mfg home with land is running about the same as a small starter home so that agrument does not fly. Now I would not ban trailer in the whole state of fla but I would anyplace 200 miles from the gulf or atlantic, that would apply to al, ms, la, ga ,tx any of the hurricane states.
I realize this is a serious issue, and one that is faced all over America. I'm not comfortable with the premise that we should build substandard, even dangerous, structures to house low income people because they can't afford to live somewhere safe.
I certainly don't have all the answers, but I suspect the problem isn't solved because we aren't trying to. Mobile homes aren't the economical choice they appear to be. Firstly, they depreciate, and after a few decades are worthless, so they are no better value than rent. Secondly, they are expensive to maintain, with their poor insulation and inefficient HVAC systems. Thirdly, they suffer great damage in severe weather, and cost more to repair or replace by a vastly disproportionate amount. Fourthly, we tend to use as cost comparisons homes of much different size. By that I mean if a home were properly constructed in the same square footage as a mobile home, on the same size lot it's long term cost would probably not be much different from a mobile home. But people are always comparing mobile home costs to much bigger homes and ignoring utility, insurance, maintenance, and depreciation costs.
Just think of how much better the lives of Floridians would be if all they had to do next week was return to their homes and clean up some trash in their yard, instead of loosing everything they had.
Dunc, Think you are in PRB. Not sure how long you have been there, but in years past the spring down slopes got routinely to 120mph. Had some ham buddies that lost all the antennas every spring...We had 75-80 gusts down here...
where do you propose to house the people who live in those mobile homes--do you really think those people choose to live in them.
To reply, I'll try to choose my words sensitively because so many people are going through a very bad time in their lives now. I'll try not to say too much.
Nearly all the people who lived in mobile homes in the paths of the hurricanes are now faced with just that choice you stated, where to live. There are perhaps several hundred thousand people who lived in mobile and other substandard homes who do now need to be housed elsewhere. My proposal is that we don't keep returning to mobile homes again and again. It's just that tragedy that we ought to work very hard to prevent in the future.
In a narrow sense people do choose to live in them. But in a more practical sense, people can only choose from among the choices available. If all that's available are homes that are not safe, the vast majority of people are stuck accepting them. Shelter of all types, whether mobile or of some other construction, should be sound, safe structures which can withstand the normal forces of the weather without total destruction.
To some extent I agree.
I have a project coming up where a couple want me to install a gen set to power their mobile home. $25000 mobile box and they want a $4000, 15,000 watt gen set controlled by a $800 transfer switch. About 11000 of those watts go to running and starting a 2.5 ton split AC unit. The project will go for around $7500.
Not much by some standards but, as noted, it will seldom be used. In the last twenty years we have lost power maybe a dozen times for a few hours. The last shot was about five days. Seems a big expenditure for a limited need. This unit is also not mobile so it is essentially usable for only one job. A rare one at that.
On the other hand when the water is supplied by a well some generation capacity is a nice way to take the edge off. Usually a small 3000 watt unit will handle a well and keep the refrigerator and freezer cold just not at the same time. It would be nice to run, in its turn, a PC, fan and a light. A small generator is also nice, being portable, around the homestead or jobs to run tools and maybe a pump or two to dewater the low spot. Lots of uses. A reasonable cost.
I ran my PC, a fan and the TV, for news and to keep you informed I tell you, all at the same time off an inverter running off my truck battery and recharged by the alternator. A small 750 watt unit it wouldn't run even my smallest AC unit, a tiny 5000 Btu window shaker, but for a few hours I was connected and the fan made things comfortable. I wouldn't leave the truck idling when I slept but it took a lot of the edge off.
These inverters come much larger and you can get deep into it by installing a second, or third battery and a stronger alternator. I posted an account under 'Hangin in Florida' on this forum. These inverters could, in some cases, provide a decent alternative to a generator.
"I have a project coming up where a couple want me to install a gen set to power their mobile home. $25000 mobile box and they want a $4000, 15,000 watt gen set controlled by a $800 transfer switch. About 11000 of those watts go to running and starting a 2.5 ton split AC unit. The project will go for around $7500.
Not much by some standards but, as noted, it will seldom be used. In the last twenty years we have lost power maybe a dozen times for a few hours. The last shot was about five days. Seems a big expenditure for a limited need. This unit is also not mobile so it is essentially usable for only one job. A rare one at that. "
@@ Seems like a lot of $$. The marginal utility of such a system is suspect. May not be used, but it needs to be maintained and exercised or #$%^ when you need it.
If they didn't want to run the AC plant, I suspect that they could do with a lot less. One of the chaps on this thread, in FL, mentioned that he was going to bring his trailer mounted 5kw unit down to power up the house. Something like that would have a lot more use.
You can certainly do a lot of things with the right size inverter. They are getting quite popular on boats. Extra batteries are a good idea. West Marine has pages of inverters and the high speed alternators to run them.
Another cruiser on the Baja run noted that while he could spend X thousand to install an Onan gen set in the boat, he could buy a standard construction gen set and carry it mounted on deck for sooo much less. When it got trashed, get another.
4LORN1,
I'm set up to use a invertor for very different reasons. i.e. NOT to run A/C.
My longest power outage has been 4 hours but it was mild (10F) outside. So with RFH the heat dipped maybe one degree F.
But if the power was out for more than 18 hours, Or 12 hours if it was -40F outside, then I'd want to run the RFH circ pumps. And an invertor is a nice, compact quiet way to do that. My Corolla will run a whole lot quieter than any Coleman, Honda, Generac, etc generator.
My circ pumps are all on SJ cords plugged into dedicated receptacles so that invertor or generator power would be trivial to connect.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Good idea.
Just a thought but drop by your local electrical supply house ant see if they have a 'male receptacle' that you can install on the side of the house by where you can park the vehicle. Installing it in a weatherproof box and under a 'in-use' cover, a special domed lid that remains weather tight with the cord plugged in, makes the installation easy and keeps everything well protected when your using it.
The male receptacle looks like a small cylindrical hole with the three prongs of a male cord cap sticking up from the bottom. It allows you to use a standard cord plugged into the inverter and the female in into the male receptacle on the side of the house.
You could use regular house wiring from the male receptacle outdoors into the house and to the the pump, cord connected to switch from utility power to the inverter circuit, and maybe a receptacle or two within the house to run a light or other load.
This setup saves you from having to run cords in through a window or door and greatly simplifies connections when the hard day comes that you need to use an inverter. You would just pull the car up, connect the inverter and plug in a short cord from the inverter to the exterior male receptacle. All the other connection are made inside. out of the snow and ice.
I like the male receptacle idea. I don't think it will make my house look too much like a Winnebago.
And, with the invertor in the car, there would be no particular limit to how far away the car could be. Downwind and out of hearing range 100 feet, for instance.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Just to keep an eye on it I would keep the car, when running the inverter, pretty close. I use a 25' 12/3 cord. The noise of a car idling at 20', especially considering the doors and windows are closed in your case, shouldn't be an issue.
If it is close by and the load is small the battery can carry the load for some time without the alternator recharging it. This makes it very quiet. Of course if you forget and drain the battery too low starting the car will be an issue.
One plan would be to have a deep discharge battery feeding the inverter and a second battery for starting. Given that most car batteries are high output units with a fairly low total capacity that are damaged if drained below about one third remaining while a deep discharge unit has more total capacity that can be taken much farther down without problems this may be the way to go.
There is a lot of information on the subject. A good place to start is the FAQ section of:
http://www.donrowe.com/index.html
"I would not waste money on a generator."
You need to come live in south Florida awhile. Sure, you can get by with no electricity but why would you when a genset could make so much difference? It's 95 degrees and 100% humidity. You lay in bed at 11:00 at night with sweat rolling off your body and you can't even run a fan. There's nothing cool to drink and if you're like me and have a well there's no water to wash in or flush the toilets.
We're talking about hurricane house and hurricanes are an annual fact of life for some of us. A gen set can and does make all the difference in the world and many of us use them every year.
>> ... if you're like me and have a well there's no water to wash in or flush the toilets.
Generators break down, too. How hard would it be to pull the electric pump and install a hand pump till the power comes back on.
I'd also think about storing 100 gallons or so of water.
"Generators break down, too. How hard would it be to pull the electric pump and install a hand pump till the power comes back on."
For me, not hard at all but for the average homeowner it would be impossible. Besides, how do you run a fan off a hand pump?
"I'd also think about storing 100 gallons or so of water"
And of course we do but once you bath in it no one wants to drink it anymore. :-)
>> Besides, how do you run a fan off a hand pump?
I can think of at least one way, but it might take so much effort that you'd end up hotter than if you had just sat still.
If I lived in a hot climate where the power went out routinely I might invest in a generator. But with gasoline so hard to come by and difficult to store safely I'm undecided whether it's worth the hassle. Probably if it was a yearly event, I'd buy one.
It's cheaper to keep 20 gallons of water in the house than to buy and maintain a generator, though.
As for flushing toilets, just scoop up a bucket of water from outside.
"It's cheaper to keep 20 gallons of water in the house than to buy and maintain a generator, though"
What will 20 gallons of water do for a family of 4 when there's no power for 2 weeks or more? Don't misunderstand, we (Floridians) manage to get by one way or the other and the vast majority don't have generators. Given the choice I'l take a gen set anyday. One of my friends went to his hunting camp and brought home his trailer mounted 15 KW unit and hooked up to his electric panel. He ran his house like normal and was the envy of the neighborhood. I'm looking for a bigger unit myself now.
Having grown up in South Florida and living in the Virgin Islands now for the past five years, I've had my fair share of hurricane experiences. Being a builder, I'm always curious to inspect hurricane damaged homes -- the one common thread (other than those homes that were obviously built by someone who shouldn't have been building in the first place) that links all destroyed homes is their location and the way they were situated on the property in the path of the storm. No matter how strongly your house is built -- all it takes is a storm powerfull enough to hit it at just the right weak point. Just make sure you get hurricane experienced architect and builder and design/ build a home that you will be able to enjoy when the hurricanes aren't a threat (the majority of the life of your home). One other thing to keep in mind is that the water damage (flooding) from hurricanes affects more homes than than the wind damage.
Actually, new construction built to Dade County codes has proven itself very well on Lee County's barrier islands, standing up to Hurricane Charley's 179+ mph gusts.
Older stuff that was not built to code was punished severely.
ICF's are a good idea because of built-in insulation properties, but poured-in-place concrete is the strongest and most plastic design medium. Enlist the assistance of a good structural engineer/architect team and you have limitless possibilities for design. most roofing systems are sold in a variety of qualities according to wind uplift rating. Concentrate on Factory Mutual Insurance - 120 rated systems (rated for in and around 120mph wind gusts with various specification requirements). A standing-seam metal roof rated for FM-120 uplift specs will (4-5) can possibly overcome even this design.
I have an aunt and a cousin who live in Punta-Gorda. Both houses are fairly new and sustained very minor damage.
The feed back I am getting is in favor of the latest building codes. It seems the older dwellings are becomin empty building lots replaced by up to date structures that last.
It makes you wonder why "hurricane proof" is only a recent trend
Well, CA had a rash of shoddy "blow n go" construction in the '80s, largely in the condo market. Ah, the lawsuits... I understand it rather killed that market. Certainly the number of condos being build dropped a bunch. If it's boom time in construction, it seems that the shoddy work increases.
This winter Florida should be profitable for anyone with a hammer.
Even "hurricane proof" houses get old. The house I live in (St. Thomas, USVI) is wood framed, built in '85, on the top of a hill. If I could throw a rock a half mile it would land in the Caribbean. It has survived hurricanes Marilyn and Hugo with very little damage (damage from theses storms is still easy to see any where on the island) but I doubt it would survive another. I'm very interested to hear damage reports in the parts of Florida that have received multiple hits this summer.
Greenman,
You say, "I doubt it would survive another." What about the age of your 19-year old house has reduced its resistance to hurricanes, compared to its early days? I am curious, because I had the (possibly wrong) idea that a wood frame house can hold its integrity pretty constantly for many decades if properly built to begin with. Please enlighten me. Thanks.
Bill
Yeah, I'm kinda curious about that too.
No matter how well a wood (or other material) structure is built everything ages. Wood, in particular, is constantly moving just becausae of the moisture in the air (expansion and contraction) add to that being hit by 150+mph winds and you can bet that house is going to move. The majority of the areas hit by hurricanes are known for their high humidity which causes further problems when talking about the material your fasteners are made with (rust and/ or corrosion are a concern).
Personally, I like the idea of post and beam skelton made of poured concrete and reinforced steel with the remainder of the sructure framed and finished with wood, and a hip roof.
Toolbar,
I'm not a contractor, however, my father in law's house just survived the worst of Hurricane Charlie, so I can probably give you some insite. His house is located on Pine Island, off the coast of Fort Myers, which was absolutely devestated by the Hurricane, with the exception of his house. His house was a simple ranch style house located 8' above sea level. Current code requires 10' and for that reason most of the neighboring houses are on stilts. The large majority of the damage to homes came as a result of water damage, which resulted either from roof destruction or broken windows. Many of those problems were caused by falling trees. A couple of things saved his home, first, he had hurricane shutters and did not experience a sinigle broken window. Second, he had a single non-native tree put in by landscapers and it was very close to the house. When it fell on the house there was very little damage. It appeared that the native trees generally were not uprooted like those added by landscapers. Third, he had recently reroofed the house, and I presume he followed all of the hurricane recommendations (extra nail, construction adhesive under the tabs). Finally, some of the stilt houses were just blown over, whereas his ranch style prevented wind from passing beneath the house (just a guess).
He did however have a massive cleanup effort which included clearing everyone else's trees off of his lot, replacing soffits and all of the screens on his screened porch. He also lived a week without water or electricity, had to use ditch water to flush his toilet. Hope this was helpful.
Hurricane House -
Thanks for the info. Hope you don't get Ivan on top of the other two. Some followup questions:
What type of storm shutters did he have? Metal, ply or whatever?
How attached?
What the roof 3tab or metal?
If I understood you, the native trees don't blow over as readily as the imports (?)
Wonder how homes with wide porches faired.
I've attached (I think, if not I'll try again) the only photo I have that shows the shutters, hope you can see them well enough. I believe they're wooden shutters. They won't stop a bullet, but they'll protect against most of the debris. The roof was 3 tab shutters, I'd imagine metal roofs would fare better, but wasn't there to see it myself. You can see from the photo that all of his soffit was torn off. Regarding the trees, the landscaped trees were typically uprooted completely, whereas the older, native trees, were seldom uprooted, though they'll probably die anyway as most of their branches were torn off.
Edited 9/11/2004 8:55 am ET by Jack
I've attached (I think, if not I'll try again) the only photo I have that shows the shutters,
@@ Photo not seen. Please try again.
I'd imagine metal roofs would fare better, but wasn't there to see it myself.
@@ Wonder about doing the whole roof surface in ice and snow membrane under the roofing - just in case it gets torn off. One assumes the deck is properly nails (not stapled) and will stick around.
Saw that done on a job for Lime Kiln State Park in CA. Coastal, wind driven rain issues. Nice work: copper gutters, flashing, heart redwood trim with two prime coats of oil, full BSAM coverage, etc. This was a restroom building. Better than most homes.
You can see from the photo that all of his soffit was torn off. Regarding the trees, the landscaped trees were typically uprooted completely, whereas the older, native trees, were seldom uprooted, though they'll probably die anyway as most of their branches were torn off.
@@ Perhaps not. Bristlecone pines live with just a few strips of tissue and some needles. Rest of the tree is dead wood.
I gotta do some big time bragging. MSNBC just did a report from Pensacola Beach, where Ivan hit. The reporter was staying in a thin shell concrete dome designed by an acquaintance of mine, the architect Jonathan Zimmerman, of SF, and built by a builder I've worked with, Southern Comfort Domes and Structures. Power was out, so there were no pix, but the reporter described how neighboring houses were devastated, the Days Inn and the Holiday Inn had their roofs ripped off, but the dome behaved exactly as it was supposed to--the structural components held perfectly solid, and some false walls and stairways built as tear-aways washed out with the storm surge. These owners had two prior homes destroyed, but not this one. The reporter said, "Seems like the architect knew what he was doing!" Another item of note, is that it was partially funded by FEMA to test the technology's ability to withstand hurricanes, and from first reports, its performance has been stellar.
Another that I've helped with was hit with the eye of Frances--Stuart, FL--and also came through without any damage.
Today I'm extremely proud of what our little corner of the construction industry is accomplishing. Now, if only banks would make construction financing more readily available, they could be accessible to more people.
Sounds like a winner. Will you be posting photos, before and after. How much surge did it get. Come with a gen set?
Understand there was a large storm surge, so we are wondering how some friends in Gulfport, Miss. made out.
been scouring the web for pictures of the home amid the post storm wreckage. I've found some articles, but no pics yet. (other than "historical" pictures of the home.
Hope this is the beginning of something big for your industry!
Was wondering about this too. Got to wondering if it would make sense to cable a house together with aircraft cable, in addition to the usual fasteners. Tie the rafters on with the cable and run it all the way back to the foundation. Also put horizontal ties between rafters and between exterior studs.
At the very least this would prevent loose pieces from flying away and damaging something else, and it would also probably prevent things from "peeling" apart in the wind.
I think Simpson would like the opportunity to show you all the fine fasteners they have to solve this problem <g>. They will send free catalogs and CDs.
I suspect it is quite possible to strap the entire house with Simpson from the foundation pour up and over the ridge and back down again.
We certainly put enough of the stuff in our homes for seismic.