Hydro-jetting storm drain with only air?
PatchogPhil
| Posted in General Discussion on
Yep, not a “Fine Homebuilding” subject. But I figure the collective wisdom here can point me in the right direction.
My brother wants to use a tow behind high volume air compressor to hydro-jet a slow storm drain. But without pumping any water, just air.
He wants to use some 3/4″ black pipe with a jet-nozzle attachment, connected to this high-volume tow behind air compressor. Just wants to air-jet the bottom and side holes of the storm drain.
I’m thinking this will not work much at getting the storm drain to drain water any better. Not nearly as well as actually using water to hydro-jet the storm drain.
Anyone have any experience with this concept?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Replies
Well, it certainly wouldn't be a hydrojet anymore, but a pnuemojet!
I'm with you - hydraulic mining is an old and effective way of moving material.
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How large is the storm drain? Is there a source for water? Got a power washer 2500-3500psi? You might want to try that first. The PW has worked for me in the past.
BIG. The kind that is in a commercial parking lot. It is full of water and is very slow to drain. April showers will form a pond.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Probably the slow drain is due to mud and sludge from the parking lot. Dripped oil from pickups like mine. Air just isn't going to do it.
Small guys with army shovels would be best. Check with Snow White, she's got at least 7 of 'em.
That'll be like blowing bubbles in a big milkshake. Lots of fun but nothing gained.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I still feel your only avenue is water combined with pressure, along with a commerical grade sump pump that can handle gravel sand and the like there of. Could be you get in there a few feet and you'll come upon XXXX branches like in a brook or stream clogging things up.
When you jet with water it's a lot heavier. That means it has a lot more inertia when it hits gunk in the drain lines. Air has MUCH less weight and obviousy a lot less inertia, so I doubt it would work.
But - Sometimes it's best to just let someone try something they're determined to do. People believe what they want to believe, and there's no convincing them otherwise. There are much worse things he could be killing time by trying.
Killing time..... yep. He wants me to help him. That will make me an accessory to the killing spree.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Air will usually only work if you can seal the pipe and it is totally plugged. We have an air ram used to unplug toilets.
I don't use it.
Ask your brother why the sewer cleaning companies use hydro. If there was a cheaper way to do it, they would.
The ability of a fluid, (air and water are both fluids), to carry suspended particle is dependant on its mass and velocity, and the shape, size, and density of the particle.
To get the air to move the wet gunk in the pipe, he will need a lot more air volume than a standard compressor will deliver, in order to get the velocity high enough to move the gunk.
That said, if he could put in a pipe plug at the entrance, and pump compressed air into it untill he develops a whole lot of pressure, it might blow out the blockage if it is extensive enough.
Typically, what blocks them is a plastic bag, caught on something in the pipe, and then the small little grit carried in by the water gets in behind the plastic, and is protected from being carried out of the pipe by the plastic, and hardens into an immovable plug.
Usually, a hydro jet can break it up if you come in from the discharge end of the pipe.
Maybe I misunderstand you, put we won't be trying to unclog a pipe.
The storm drain is like a dry water well. A wide cement cylinder (8' wide, maybe 8' deep) with and open bottom. The top is domed with a grated iron man-hole cover, that lets the rain water into it. The sides of this "vault" is perforated, so that water can also drain away out the sides.
The bottom of the storm drain has build up of leaves and muck, whatever papers, cigarette butts and the like that washed down there. The idea is to blast thin holes into the surrounding earth (sand in our case here on Long Island).
I think that hydro jetting will work better than just air jetting.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Now you are talking something different. What you want is a hydrovac.
Basically a septic truck combined with a pressure washer.
That is different than what I was visualizing. The soils around the well are probably clogged with the oils, fine sediment and organic gunk that has been washed into them over time. Air drilling into the surrounding soils, may get you out past the clogged field far enough to get it working again. You are right that hydrojetting would be quicker. But it might require actually digging out the soil from around it, and installing a drain rock system. You might also end up needing some kind of environmental permitting. The old system may be grandfathered to requirements at date of installation. Any modifications could require that it be updated to current standards. Edit: You might want to install pvc pipes into the holes in the sides as you blow them out. That will let the water get out past the end of clogged soil surrounding the well.
Edited 4/2/2009 7:56 pm ET by Jigs-n-fixtures
What's with the A ? You from canada, A?
Interesting? J
Just this morning in the building I work at, the chief brain surgeon was trying to power snake the storm drains at the entrance to the parking deck. That was at 0630, at 0800 I exit for a smoke. The brain surgeons and his assistants scratch their ______ and decide that a leaf blower might work??? Wish I'd have had a camera.
Long story, short. The real plumber showed up about 0830. It was a riot to watch though!!!!!! I am still laughing!!!!
So, what did the real plumber do?BTW, there are no pipes involved with this storm drain here. Nothing to "snake". All it is, is a cement hole in the ground with open bottom to sand. And some perforation holes in the sides.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
118649.1
Update to my earlier thread http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=118496.1 about trying to "jet" the bottom of a storm drain that doesn't drain very well.
To my surprise it did "work" but it didn't solve the problem.
The storm drain (or dry well) was full of water. The injection of high pressure high-volume compressor air with a 3/4" pipe and a 3/8" nipple on end, did inject holes well into the soil. We do have very sandy soil here on Long Island. Slipped the pipe 15 feet into the soil rather easily.
But since the ground is so saturated the level really did not go down much. The tanks were filled with sand, leaves, garbage and whatever oily muck slid down there from the parking lot. The air injection made a thick slurry of the muck.
The holes bored probably refilled with the muck slurry and prevented any water from draining.
The drains will have to be dredged of the muck."...The soul afraid of dying; Who never learned to live."
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things. -Thoreau