Replies

1. 
   Dave_Matheny | Apr 09, 2000 05:01am | #5

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   Stephen:

   There is a fairly new technology that is being adapted to a variety of uses, including one similar to your application. Have you ever heard of a spray-on truck bed liner for pick-up trucks. There are two dominate brands in the field -- Rhino Liner and LINE-X. I am more familiar with the LINE-X brand.

   The product is a two-part polymer that is sprayed on to a prepared surface at 170 lbs pressure and 150 degrees. It immediately begins to set up and is dry to the touch in 3 -- 5 seconds. The LINE-X guys that are in my industrial complex are just about to spray the inside of some fiberglass tanks on a fish hatchery truck. From what they have told me, the product fully cures in a day and will be a "fish safe" barrier when sprayed over the cracks in the tanks. They got the job because it will be cheaper to save the tanks with LINE-X than to buy new ones.

   There is another application for this product that caught my attention. It has a great stretch factor before cracking or tearing. LINE-X is being applied to foundation walls where it bonds to the concrete block or poured concrete wall. I have seen a sample that was sprayed onto a 3" cap block. After being shattered with a hammer, you could wave the block like a flag and the LINE-X wouldn't break or crack. Very impressive stuff. With the right planning and site prep, this might be the product for your project. The beauty of this product could be the flexability of designing any shape that you want, and not have to stick to the "canned" variety of available pond structures. If you are dead set on a box corner pond, this product can be applied directly to plywood. Three coats of LINE-X will add up to about 3/16" of material. You will have to make sure that your joinery is tight and stays tight. Have you thought about freezing?

   By the way, LINE-X comes in a standard color black, but I have seen all sorts of color samples including blue, pink, green, and a cream color. The main company "LINE-X" has a web site if you are interested.

   Good Luck.

2. 
   Guest_ | Apr 09, 2000 05:05am | #6

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   hey

   making a water garden for the deck soon, more boxy than the swoopy poly liners and other shapes sold for the purpose. anyone know of a paintable coating that would be plant/fish safe once cured? thinking about something maybe 36"x48"(w,l)x12"(depth in center). looked at some plastic roof coating, but don't know if they'll hold. square corner fish pond expert suggestions?

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 21, 2000 07:42pm | #1

   *Stephen: I've built a bunch of boats with System 3 Epoxy (Seattle, WA) over plywood. A single coat waterproofs very well. 2-3 coats wets out fiberglass if you want to reinforce anything. You have about a 30 minute pot life, depending on temperature and it can be applied with a bristle brush, foam brush or roller. Cures in 24-48 hours. West Systems is another tough and easy to use epoxy system. Either is more expensive than polyester based systems, but tougher, easier to use, not so noxious. Plus you're talking about a small area. Maybe a pint or quart total (but don't mix that much at once, it'll get too hot and go off too quick). Westmarine sells small contianers of West System. You could put it on concrete, plywood, most anything.I've paddled past a lot of salmon and the only ones that got hurt where the ones I bumped into (small streams, big fish) or caught and ate. Seriously, it should be fish safe, once cured.And/or were you asking about the structure of the box? If the back side not buried, you could use plywood (or pressure-treated plywood below ground) and epoxy the inside after FG taping the corners, like my boats. If it's in-ground, gunite or grout or concrete on chicken wire is cheap and competely flexible to your artistic whims. Really cheap and easy would be 50-100 mil polyethylene sheeting. It would be hard to get a small chuck of such thick stuff - hardware stores sell 2-mil through 10-mil. The thick stuff is used (by us environmental engineer types) for lining landfills. -David

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   Guest_ | Mar 22, 2000 12:04am | #2

   *'swoopy poly liners'? Are you refering to pre-formed hard liners or roll your own membrane liners?I've built several holding ponds for fish in that size range using simple 3/4" ply boxes with 2x4 top and bottom support (being temporary they didn't have to be pretty). I used 6 mil poly to line them with by folding a plastic box within the box (kind of origami like, no cuts or seams).6 mil poly isn't appropriate for something permanent and out doors, but I think that going the way of a liner is maybe easier. A pond liner built to the task can be easily folded into your box shape and the corner folds glued down flush (or left) for a nice neat appearance. You're box won't have to be as exacting and the whole pond will be much more forgiving if the wooden frame moves with seasonal changes. I also think it will be cheaper in the long run.I've known many homebuilt aquariums (most much larger than your pond) built as David describes using a two part epoxy paint (usually a high grade marine paint - make sure it doesn't contain additives used to kill critters). They are durable and leak free provided they aren't emptied and refilled repeatedly. If the mix, or brand (some epoxy paints cure more brittle than others) isn't just right for your application the paint may harden brittle, and any movement of the wood will lead to hair line cracks and eventually leaks. Fortunately for your pond, it's probably not that big a deal to re-paint if necessary over time and it would give you much more freedom over the color choices. Then again, it's also not that big a deal to replace a liner over time either.Sounds like fun!

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   M._R._Wurzbacher | Mar 29, 2000 02:22am | #3

   *Dave Thomas, I have for the last year used West System epoxy, from Gougeon Bros. We do old house restoration and repair. The more I use this stuff, the more I find new uses for it. Give the a call 517-684-7286 orwww.westsystem.com @ Tom Pawlak (he's been with the co. for 20+ years and has much info. Good surfin'. Hammer and nails.

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   Guest_ | Apr 02, 2000 06:33am | #4

   *Stephen - Why not use one of the flexible (EPDM?) pond liners sold for this purpose at landscape outlets?Jeff Clarke