Got a call today.
Power is giong off and on.
When I got there everyhing was working. Took off cover and found nothing out of the ordinary, except that the main lines are spliced in the panel to make them long enough to reach the main breaker.
Crawl under the trailer and find another splice 5′ before it goes underground. Open disconnect box under meter and find a wire feeding the trailer tht is bigger than the spliced one I have seen already.
Here is what happens. No rhyme or reason, power goes out, just from three circuits though. Then it comes back on. It did it while I was there, so I know they are not crazy.
It was only out for about 10 mins while I was there. The breakers never tripped.
There was a 50 amp breaker that tripped ( i think) it was on opposite side of panel.
The ones that quit working are not the only breakers on that side, so we are not losing a whole side of the main panel.
I probly saw more details but won’t remember them without prodding my brain. If I think of anything else I will let you know.
Anyone have any ideas?
The people are in a hotel for the night at least. The main is shut off for now. I need to figure this out.
I hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr — I hope to grow into this name.
Replies
cracked main bus?
"Crawl under the trailer and find another splice 5' before it goes underground. Open disconnect box under meter and find a wire feeding the trailer tht is bigger than the spliced one I have seen already."
This sounds like you are saying that the wire that leaves the disconnect box (presumably going to the trailer) is a larger wire than the one you find coming out of the ground under the trailer and is spliced 5' after coming out of the ground.
Which can only be true if:
1) there is ANOTHER splice underground between the two points
or
2) the wire coming out of the ground under the trailer is coming from somewhere else.
At least, I think. I don't know why this would cause the outage, but it sounds a bit funky to me.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Sounds like you are intermidealy loseing one leg of the 240.
Could be the POCO drop. Could be a lose connection in the meter socket. Any on of of those splices, the connection at the main breaker. The main breaker itself. Or connection to the bus bar.
"There was a 50 amp breaker that tripped ( i think) it was on opposite side of panel."
I have not seen a 50 amp breaker that is not 240.
"The ones that quit working are not the only breakers on that side, so we are not losing a whole side of the main panel."
What kind of panel is this?
Common design is for there to be one bus bar that runs down the middle zig zags so that the breakers alternate between legs.
Both sides of the panel work the same way. So if you lose a leg you don't lose a SIDE, but rather every other circuit (for 120).
Also get an AM pocket radio and tune to the low end of the band where there is no stations.You might hear "frying". If not try wiggling the breakers and splices and while listing to the radio.Also look for anything warm.
The 50 amp is a 220 and is not one that we are losing power to, not even running anything off of it as far as I can tell. That was a weird point to me that it tripped when things started working again.
AM I NUTS ?I hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
What is the 50A circuit feeding???
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
You have lost the neutral.
Would I not lose the power everywhere?I hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
If you lose the neutral everything on one leg will see low voltage and everything on the other will see high voltage.But the amounts depend on what loads are each leg at the time.If that is the case you would see dimmer lights on one leg and brighter on the other. In some case enough to put near full 240 across the light for a SHORT time.But in most cause the neutral only gets a high resistaance connection and does not completely open so the symptoms are not as bad.Does not sound like you lost a neutral.
Bill,
The way I understand it, if a 240v residential panel loses the neutral, then all circuits become 240volt.
If both legs or phases use the same neutral bar in the panel, juice comes in from 1 leg and cannot leave by the neutral line back out thru the service line. So behaving as electricty does, the juice then goes along the neutral of an inside circuit on the other phase (one that is also "on" or has a load) and leaves on that other leg. That juice on that other leg or phase also "wants" to get out and does the same thing, leaving out the opposite phase.
All you need is one circuit on each phase being "on" for this to happen.
Lots of 120v single phase stuff in the house does not like being fed 240v dual phase and tends to burn up.
Some light bulbs will work for a while on 240v, just VERY brightly.
You have the concept, but not the correct details.All of the loads that are on one leg of the 240 are in series with all of those on the other leg.If all you had where two 100 watt bulbs, on on each leg then each would see 120 volts and work completely normally (until you turn one out and both would go out).But say you had a 100 watt bulb on one leg and a toaster on the other. Then the light bulb would see near 240 volts until it burnt out.
Well, it is possible I have been mis-understanding this for over 25 years. Stuff happens.
But....
One part you said does not make sense to me, about the light bulb and toaster. A light bulb is basically a toaster in a vacuum. So why would it matter whether there are two light bulbs on opp. phases or a lightbulb and a toaster? All of them are resistance loads.
They are all resistive loads.But the resistance is much different.100 watt bulb => 144 ohms.1000 watt toaster => 14 ohms.two in series across 240 volts.Total resistance 158 ohms240/158 = 1.52 amps.Across light 1.52 x 144 => 219 voltstoaster 1.52 x 14 =>21 volts.
Ah yes, the cobwebs are clearing..... vague recollections back to physics class.
V= I*R.
Thanks for the reminder.
What Bill said.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
can you tell if the wires on the mains are aluminum, or copper..?.....
I think you have an open splice.....probably in the part that is underground
.....be careful...... and remember to wear some gloves
and don't touch the frame of the trailer while your nosing around....as a precaution
.
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.Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
?
I can kill all power to trailer at disconnect 40 feet away.I hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
aluminum wireI hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
I would definitly look for an damaged underground splice , it could even be a hole in the insulation as well,
Aluminum hates water....repair it to get the folks back home and then..... change everything to copper .......soon
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.Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
?
Have you checked the connections to the meter? A loose connection caused this problem at my house after our panel was upgraded to 200 Amps. ...that's not a mistake, it's rustic
They didn't pay thier bill...
Power gods can't legally turn off ALL the power...
so they block one side of 240...
then when you turn on something that runas on 240, it backfeeds thru and stuf on the turned off side works..
I have no comment...
or
Napalm!!!
What caused the 50-amp breaker to trip? And what sort of load could you have that is 50A 120V?
I'm thinking you're losing one side of the 240V line, but there's enough backfeed through 240V loads to power smaller loads on the dead side.
I've seen this exact situation happen when the connection at the meter pan corroded. Lost 1 leg (every other breaker on the left hand side of the panel box) Double pull breakers had juice on 1 leg obviously, and none on the other.
I would start at the meter pan, and check each connection back to the panel. Sounds like 1 is loose or frayed.
I suggest that you have the homeowner call an electrician familiar with mobile home wiring.
There are a few special NEC requirements for mobile home services that are essential for a safe installation. This situation appears to be complicated by non-compliant work (like a flying splice in a feeder, and possibly an inappropriate buried splice in the feeder), and may be further complicated by one or more problems not related to the non-compliant work.
This appears to be someone elses home ("I got a call today..."). Do you want to take on the moral responsiblity of ensuring that all the problems are found, and fixed right?
Remember, electrical stuff can be made to work right (or appear to work right) and yet subsequently can present a danger of fire, shock, or electrocution.
Cliff
p.s. Sounds to me like there's a fault triping the main breaker, and only one pole of the main breaker is opening, so only half the branch circuits go dead. That happens more often than you'd think. CP
Check all boxes / panels and connections for ants or other varmits. We have had similar problems with ants and once with a lizard that crawled into the panel and shorted wiring.
Called sparky this AM. Sparky and power co. meet me out there. Meter connection is deffinately bad, and we change underground feed "while we are at it".
One wire from disconnect to main panel now.
Going to change main panel tomorrow, for safety's sake.
Think we nipped it at the meter though.
Thanks for all the input.I hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.