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Having worked out of this or that old truck that I could afford at the time, I have finally saved enough to invest in a new heavy-duty vehicle. Now that I can have whatever I want (practically) I’m not sure what’s best. I definetly want a diesel, and am somewhat partial to a Ford. A crew cab is a must, but I’m not sure how BIG of a truck to get. I could foresee needing enough power to tow a small tractor or Backhoe, but the F-350 seems huge, and I don’t want to over-do it. Also, I’d like to get a nice rig on the bed for storing tools and transporting material, ladders etc. I know the standard, but was wondering if anyone had any special suggestions. I’m about to put down a chunk of change and I want to be sure I’ve gotten the most for my money. Any advice is welcome.
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Replies
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Stephen,
Considering the use is the most important issue. The F350 is a great truck and with the Navistar Diesel you'll have plenty of power. I wouldn't tow more than 25k-30k lbs with it on a regular basis. If you are hauling a good sized load all the time the 350 is O.K. Compare the GVWs and costs of the F350 and F250 to determine the right size truck.
Keep in mind that it is expensive to service a diesel and parts are a killer after the warranty runs out. Fuel is often more expensive than gas also. The MPG may be a little better and help offset some of these costs.
I considered buying another truck recently but bought a van instead. I love it for tool storage and getting my "40 yr old, rode hard bones" to my tools. The only draw back is it's not 4x4. I still have a couple of 4x4s to access tough jobsites.
*I've got a 97' F-350 crew cab,4x4 with the powerstroke and I absolutely love it. I've got an A.R.E. cap on the back with the built in toolboxes. The only drawback on these trucks is turning radius. They are long(23') so tight sites can be a challenge. They can pull a hoe with no problems and fully loaded with tools it gets around 17-18 mpg in town, 20-22 on the road. I had the identical truck in early 97' with the 460 gas motor and traded it back within 8 months(7 mpg, uphill downhill loaded, empty, tailwind, headwind whatever)dog dog dog. I'd opt for the 350 no matter what. The ride is actually better, and the extra gvw is needed for a heavy trailer.
*When choosing the power plant be sure to run the numbers. When I did I found that diesel didn't make sense any more. With Ford the breakeven between the gas V-10 and the diesel V-8 was about 135000 miles. The other brands had similiar numbers.Look back in the archives about a year. There was a very long and detailed post on buying a work truck. Also there were a couple on vans, trailers, pickups. This is still probably pretty good.
*FredB- I bought a `99 F250 Superduty with the PowerStroke last year, a couple of points youre missing on the gas motor- 1. The diesel comes with a standard 100k warranty -apply that to the gasser. 2. Resale- up here there are VERY few used 3/4 ton diesels to be had, esp. with crew cab or supercab. The gassers are plentyful everywhere, as people soon realize what the price of fuel is and how fast they burn it and how often they are at the pumps, it is time to dump it. I will buy something that holds value over an expendable item any day. At 135k you say theyre even in cost, but what happens after that? Your still going to be at the pumps wasting your money out the tailpipe, when the diesel has long payed for itsself. 3. Longevity- Auto makers are held accountable for any recalls afer manufacture, the powerstroke diesel is rated at 300k as "reasonable life expectancy" the gassers arent half that. 4.They are just butt-stompin` cool.
*Go with the Dodge or wait for the new Chevy. The new Chevy will blow em all away. I've never had much luck with Ford's, plus they change the body every few years. Absolutely, go with the diesel. Better resale, mileage, and power.
*If one truck were really head and shoulders above the rest all you would have to do was find out which one was sales leader. Me , I like the Ford with the power stroke for the use You've indicated but the only serious advice I would give is get it in Red. Skip
*Steve,Well I say the long lasting low maintinence of a diesel will win anytime you compare it to a gas. Fuel in my area was lowertill OPECS latest round and now it is equal to the 93 octain. Diesels run forever. Additionally the only real maintinence I do is oil change when needed, fuel filter/ water seporator changes and a pint of injector cleaner every few tankfulls. The only major concern I have ever had with Diesels is valve cover gaskets. Because of the way a diesel rapidly heats the block and heads compared to the covers you may get seepage at the gaskets. I see this alot in colder climates.A little insider Info from my dad, He picks up crated engines from the plant that assembles them and hauls them to Fords Plants in Norfolk and Kentucky. The same plant makes Navistar and International. He was told the Navistar name was part of a merger deal but the engine manufacturing never changed in 1994.Additionally Dodge runs Cummings and Chevy runs a 350 gas block converted to a diesel by Detroit Deisel. All three are good but the Chevy is hat is in the HUMVEEs and we have a wicked problem with oil circulation in the winter.All the one tons ride smoother. If you are going to tow pay alot of attention to your trans and rear end gearing. The diesel will give you enough torque. Add in the right hitch as well.As for tool carrying there is a good site ( http://www.worktruck.com ) that you can look at for ideas and products. I am prone to keeping that 4x8 area totally clear and try to get everything I can to the sides. I took my racks off when I came back on active duty but a slid one is essential. Wether it is a stubby for over a cap, or a full blown rig. Don't over load it and make sure it is secure to the truck. I once sa a load of 2x12s about 16' long bound nice and neat on the side of the beltway, it had 4 legs sticking straight up in the air.Incidently my F-250 has 189000 mi. and is clean under the hood and still pulls better than my dads 351 windsor of the same size, and his is newer with a standard.Hope this helps.AE
*I recently bought an F350 Diesel. Love it. Beats the snot out of the Dodge I traded in. More comfortable, easier access (according to the WU), and I got the crew cab which really eases loading the rugrat in the back. Not neccesarly top priorities for a work truck, but when serving as both a family and work vehicle, it makes a difference.Diesels are designed with a longer service life in mind. New OTR haulers are talking about engines capable of running 500,000 miles between rebuilds.The new Ford body style is really unique (at least until everyone owns one).Historicly, diesel has been running a little cheaper than gas, and I expect that trend will continue in the long run.When the truck gets ragged out, you can run it on used cooking oil and amaze all of your friends. (Not to mention getting all of the neighborhood dogs to follow your truck like a McDeath burger on wheels!)
*Stephen,You may want to look at http://www.edmunds.com, in the truck forum. Lots of discussion about diesel vs gas. Also check the archives over there. I believe there's a link to the Powerstroke home page. There's a lot of information relative to proper preventative maintenance you need to be aware of before you buy. I think the 135,000 mi. breakeven point is optimistic. You can buy two gas crate motors for what the powerstroke will cost you upfront, so durability is not the main issue. If you tow a lot and have ready access to good fuel then the diesel is probably best. If not, its really not worth the expense and added hassle.Good luck,Eric
*I have driven diesel cars for years, and while they are not in the same league as the Ford, some of the same problems apply. Diesels seem to go forever if they are driven hours at a stretch. But, drive them short distances with the heating and cooling, and there are problems galore. You will often see owners of diesel pickups leave them running while they get lunch, etc. There is a GM diesel page on the web with some notes about the relative economy of diesels vs gas, and doing the numbers, 135,000 miles keeps recurring. For myself, I have talked with the drivers at Menard's, a local equivalent of HD, etc, inquired as to what they make and decided that every 24.50 I spend for a delivery is the cheapest truck payment I ever made.Heck, you can over estimate, and return the excess for less than the price of a one of large trucks.Also, they guys are right about maintenance, bring money. Sure they have guarantees, just don't try and use them. Have fun,Dennis
*It is hard to argue with a bunch of diesel fans. But, as a former diesel owner I think the idea that a diesel either lasts longer, is cheaper to operate, or is more reliable in light duty applications is outdated. Keep in mind that everything talked about in this post is a "light duty application".When you run the numbers be sure to include the difference in purchase price, the higher parts and labor cost, the higher LOF cost, etc when running the diesel. Interestingly shortly after I made the gas vs diesel decision Trailer Life Magazine did a head to head on the Ford V10 v Ford V8-Diesel. They came up with the same numbers; that the breakeven was about 135,000 miles. Plus, you may find difficulty getting warranty work done. I found that some Chev/Dodge/Ford dealers may only have one or two diesel guys on board. If they are busy you wait.We tend to put too much focus on the powerplant's economy. Fuel is probably the cheapest thing about operating a work truck. Besides, today the things that break most aren't the things that depend on what kind of fuel the truck uses.So, other than just saying: "I'm going to buy a diesel because I want to buy a diesel": I can't think of any reason to buy one today.
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Stephen,
I can only but agree with Skips comments. FORDS are the way to go!
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Boys Boys...I really can't relate. Sitting here...watching the gas spike...and the stock market topping off waiting for the fire sales when the economy is not so robust.
I will bet my 3 early 80's ford straight six half tons...with the heavy springs against a diesel any day.
I bet I spend less on maintainance, per mile....and I won't hesitate to let a flunkey pick up and drop things off in it.
I still have my first one on the road...it has nearly 300,000 k's (180,000miles), and is still going strong...and we load them, I have had 3 tons on the back. It has a flat steel deck that the lift trucks drop the lumber on, and it cost a whole 3500$ to build.../with the paint job.
This versus 35000$ for a truck for work is a non issue.
Wondering what my southern counterparts are thinking....
PS, I had new trucks every 2 years for the first 8 years in business....I know what they cost.
L
*To all you PowerStroke fans- dont forget to add your FW-16 coolant additive at the recommended 15k intervals or you will have swiss cheese for an engine Lawrence-I had and 83Ford 4x4 with a 300/6 a handmedown from my dad back in `89, great reliable truck- but I think your literally blowing smoke from behind your flatbed compared to todays trucks, Even since my old `95 its amazing how far theyve come. The Dodge is great, but it rides like a brick. I have to believe the diesel costs more maintenance wise, 15qt oil changes, $10 oil filters, $30 fuel filters, fuel antigel, but its all part of owning them, if you need a big truck, you need a big motor to push it- its that simple! If you cant run with the BigDogs......
*Assuming you are in business to make money and that your new truck is not going to actually increase your revenue, the only thing to consider is cost/mile. This is true of any vehicle if you buy so that you get a reliable vehicle. You simply take the cost of the vehicle, add the cost of routine maintenance, add tires, subtract the realistic trade-in value (if any), and divide by the total miles you expect to drive it. Exclude gas because unless you get a gas-guzzler, it will be a wash. When you do this exercise with real-world numbers, you see that "new" trucks, unless you drive them til they fall apart, are rather expensive.
*The new GM trucks with the Izusu diesel and Allison 5 speed automatic are supposed to be THE king of the hill!!!
*Sliding a double scotch to Tom....with a snicker. (I know what the numbers are...LOL). My best friend just bought a 4x4 powerstroke...If forced to choose between prestige and practicality, the choice is simple. My truck cost per vehicle/year....Less than $3000.00/vehicle, and insurance is $300/year.(not including gas...and that is in Canadian Dollars). And they look clean. Show me the numbers boys...
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AE,
WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOUR F250 HAS ENOUGH POWER? I WON'T BE MOVING HEAVY EQUIPMENT ALL THE TIME, BUT WANT TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE A PAYLOAD, TOOLS, CREW AND A BOBCAT ON A TRAILER IF I NEED TO. DO I REALLY NEED A 350?
*Why buy a new truck- when old one is still in running condition? Truck prices have gone through the roof over the past decade, and I am not willing to pay 25-35k for a truck. My '88 Dodge Ram 50 still runs like a top, and I have some body work scheduled. Why not take that cash to your local investment center? Let your money work for you.
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Diesel diesel diesel, love em'. The powerstroke is an International T444D, same one they put in most school buses. It has more hot rod parts from Gale Banks than you can dream of(I have most of them, a $4600 engine hah, more like $7000) I don't know about all this BS about short trips killing them, I've seen way to many take that grind to say it's so. And the truck they wrap around that engine is also one tough dude. There ain't a gasser out there that has the torque and pulling power of a diesel. I've had those 300 6's and there is not a comparison. The maintenance is no big deal either.In fact it is less of a hassle than a gasser. Change oil every 5000(hey with 14 qts. you can stretch a little) change the fuel filter every 15000 and keep the air clean...done. Did I mention there is no tune up, plugs, wires, cap rotor, PCV,blah blah, blah. AND to boot there is http://www.ford-diesel.com that has a group of very friendly owners that know EVERYTHING.
*Steve,I would say so. It is a F-250 HD. The one ton payoad is great. I have put a pallet of roof shingles in the back, About 120 CMU's and pulled a flatbed trailer with a Bobcat tracked excavator.I have pulled a 35' camper thru the mountains of west Va. also. Sometimes the tourque is a bit much, like empty in the snow. Most recently I hooked up a 30 yard roll off and pulled it to a different part of my dads yard. The truck it came on couldnt get under a tree in the driveway.AE
*Just a note n maintinence, Deisel or gas we really are wasteful if we are changing oil every 3000 mi or 3 months. I learned at the ARMY Oil and Lubricant Analisys Corse that that rule is for the people who don't do their own maintinance. Most people who do actually look at the oil when they check it. They can see discoloration or bits of matter. They can smell it also. Because most people today don't even open their own hood the manufacturers have to protect them selves, so the rule.The Army sends oil samples of all fluids to a lab that analysis it and can tell you if it is ok and what parts are wearing internally in the component the oil cam out of. Now granted we all don't have this resourse but the leason is still there. Take the time to look and do proper maintinence on your own vehicle and it will last.Besides why add more to the cost of working when the goal is to pocket as much of what you earn as you can. I am partial to diesels because I have had first hand experience at their durability. As an example I put 10,000 miles on a dump truck in Korea in a month with most of he distance in 4-6 feet of water/ We built a ford across a river nd the only time the truck was off was for fueling over 28 days. We had to take the fan belts of because the water was distorting he blade and causing it to come too close to the raditor.No Gas egine could take that use but then most wont be in that siituation.Buy smart for your use and take care of it.AE
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i didn`t read the article myself but i came across a review about crewcab pickups at http://www.builderonline.com. it may be of some help.
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Construction people are one opinionated bunch. And if it's not the tools they use every day that they are the most passionate about it's the vehicles they drive. If you work at it hard enough you can rationalize the purchase of almost anything. Drive what makes you happy and feels right. I too have an old Ford half ton with the 4.9 liter six cylinder. It has almost 300,000 miles on the original motor and manual transmission. I bought it new in 1987 and am tired of it now. I want a new Super Duty Ford with a V-10 and manual shift and loaded up like a Cowboy Cadillac should be. Do I need it? Well, no but what does that have to do with anything?
*As to oil changes, I bought a Dodge Dakota in '94 and the recommendations were 5000 miles between changes for city or dusty conditions, but only 7,500 miles for highway use. I think the specs are changing, but we've gotten so used to the 3,000 mile routine, that it's hard to get people to change their thinking.
*After alot of shopping I purchased a slightly used 97 f250 diesel with the extended cab,4x4. Love the deisel,as it comes in handy on the farm. pulls the tractor out of the mud quite well. I wish I'd bought the crew cab,but hindsight is 20-20. It takes alot of oil at change time, and yes the filters are expensive, but what do you expect from a workhorse? If you are pulling or carrying a lot of cargo they can't be beat, but they are a horribly rough ride empty. my seat drinks more coffee than I do. A word to the wise-if you are not used to a big truck, you will find it impossible to park in the city and you will want to corner more slowly, as it feels top heavy. But if you want a truck that works as hard as you do, i feel that the ford heavy-duty truck is the way to go.
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Having worked out of this or that old truck that I could afford at the time, I have finally saved enough to invest in a new heavy-duty vehicle. Now that I can have whatever I want (practically) I'm not sure what's best. I definetly want a diesel, and am somewhat partial to a Ford. A crew cab is a must, but I'm not sure how BIG of a truck to get. I could foresee needing enough power to tow a small tractor or Backhoe, but the F-350 seems huge, and I don't want to over-do it. Also, I'd like to get a nice rig on the bed for storing tools and transporting material, ladders etc. I know the standard, but was wondering if anyone had any special suggestions. I'm about to put down a chunk of change and I want to be sure I've gotten the most for my money. Any advice is welcome.