Good evening everyone,
I am looking for someone to just give me their opinion. The more the merrier. Apparently, here in CT, I have received many different ones on the same subject, ranging from licensed engineers, to lumber yards to my town code official. All I want to do is build a garage with no posts inside. I poured the 36 x 24 foundation for it when I built my house in 2002. I am looking to put up a 1 1/2 story garage. My options are to stick frame or balloon frame. Now I know what a lot of people are saying…why balloon frame. If it was only that easy.
Say I Platform frame. That leaves me with building an approx. 2 foor high wall on the 1st floor deck. I am scared off by the hinge the low wall will become. Will the plywood overlapping the lower wall, rim and upper wall be enough to hold the load from spreading? A little. Will I be able to put in collar ties high enough to give me enough headroom? I don’t think so. Why don’t I just make the ridge structural? I could, but to span 36 feet it would be huge. Maybe I could add lvl’s into the floor to carry the load from the roof to the floor joists and then down the walls. I could but what a pain that would be, and much more expensive.
Say I ballon frame it? At a certain point, I let in an lvl ledger ( have to meet that i-joist bearing minimum of 1 3/4). The rafters sit on top of the 12 foot, 2 x 6 exterior wall, and then I could raise the collar ties high enough to have headroom. But noooo, 3 i-joist manufactures tell me their i-joists are not made to be in tension. They say only for horizontal loading. What the hell is the difference in an i-joist nailed twice to a top plate, or nailed twice to a ledger? Then they say I can’t nail through the flange into the stud. Why the heck not? If this was in an attic I would nail the rafter to the top cord. Yes, nailing to the rim on a platform helps, but only some.
And the engineers? One says make the ledger the same size as the i-joist and use hangers. Good idea, but what stops the walls from pulling out. Oops, didn’t think about that, did he.
It seems I am way overthinking this. Build the dam wall of 2 x 6, use a 2 x 6 ledger. Nail the i-joists to the ledger just like its sitting on a top plate, nail through the studs into the i-joist top cord and then tie it all together with sheathing. A 2 x 10 rafter at a 10 pitch to finish it off.
Any suggestions for me?
Edited 9/6/2006 8:35 pm ET by river road rat
Replies
Use open web trusses for the floo9r and size the ledger to be the same height and elevation. use hangers and toenails both. Call simpson for their recommendations on the best hanger for you.
Another solution or contribution is to use roof trusses with a scissors design.
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It's doable, but the I-joists are not the amnswer. I have built two garages similar to this. Both standing straight and true.
Extra hardware and maybe even cable ties to handle the thrust at the floor level, and a balloon frame.
I think everyone involved so far has reacted to a specific design and said why NO it can't work, instead of looking at the goal and saying HOW to make it work.
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I'm gonna stay out of this one. View Image
Ironically, the exact procedure I described using the i-joists came right from Tauntons Precision Framing book by Mike Guertin. They call for use of I-joists in the 1 1/2 story application.
mike stops in here sometimes, but I don't have his E-mail, but you could get a message to him through Taunton for sure. find out how he had it engineered. I don't agree with every little thing he does, but he's a stand up guy and I'm sure he could back up his work solidly
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There, now Mikle can handle it and I can step aside too.
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Thanks Piffin and Rex,
I actually may shoot him a quick e-mail before I hit another engineer.
I also remember getting replies from both of you to some posts I made a few years back regarding building my home. Thanks to some great tips from you guys I did what I set to do. No small task since I adjust fire claims for a living. My wife and I framed it in 2 months and did most of the work ourselves.
Again, thanks for taking to time to help.
Nice Colonial, especially the chimney!
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Another thought following up here... if that space in the upper floor of the garage is for any form of living space, you will need fireblocking in the balloon framing. It is wise anyway
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Email available by clicking here: MikeGuertin
A bird does not sing because it has an answer. A bird sings because it has a song.
Man, We gotta shine up that halo for you to wear again.
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Lost it at the fest, aye?
That's one of the things about attending a fest. No place to hide no more. Roar!
be carrying a belly and a bald head
A bird does not sing because it has an answer. A bird sings because it has a song.
Good night Saint Reztipher
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you could go structual steel, and then fill in with joist and 2x for walls
"I thought this would be simple"
I started laughing as soon as I saw the title! How many times I've said that over the past ten years....
Great looking house!!!!
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
I did this on a house for my FIL 17 years ago - 20' wide X 26' long; simple gable on the long axis. The addition has 8-1/2' ceiling first floor; but the wall studs are 11' 2x6 with a let-in 2x8 at 8'6, to support joist hangers for the 2nd floor. Roof sits on 2-1/2' extension of stud upwards (with a double top plate, of course).
HOWEVER! There are knee walls at about the 4-1/2" level to support the rafters, and rafter ties at 8' above the 2nd floor level.
I had to design it this way, as we were building a "telescope" house that is a traditional look in MD - two story 2 rooms over 2; 1-1/2 story 1 room over 1 abuts that, and then a single story block - all with parallel gables; looking like the whole house would nest. The attic hallway gave us the ability to build a back stair in the far end of the one-story (kitchen & utility) block.
Looks good - looks like a 1-story addition from the exterior, but has very useful hallway, library wall, computer area, and two closets upstairs.
Forrest
Regarding ballon framing - just my opinion, but why reinvent the (current) wheel? I can see your point though if you really want to stick the roof. Like you said, a masive ridge beam will be in order though - budget for a crane on that one. Collar ties alone aren't gonna cut it. Find out what the purpose of collar ties are - and you will fully understand. On the ballon, if you let in a LVL - you now have only 1 3/4" (max) of stud left. Not really sure the "2x2s" are gonna help that much.
Let's talk about something else... I-joists span 24'? So, what are we talkin? 18", 20" or what? When looking at those I-joist span charts, don't go with L/360. It will be like a trampoline. Remember what L/360 actually means - do the deflection calc. I don't think you said what the 2nd floor will be used for... I guess a trampoline would be OK for light storage... If you price around for floor trusses, I think you might find that you can even get them cheaper and end up with a better performing floor... If you want to ballon frame, they would likely end up being top chord bearing.
Regrading the roof, just order storage trusses and have a nice day. Probably even be cheaper.
In summary - use the technology available to you - floor trusses and roof trusses.
Take your plans to the truss company and let them engineer it. It sounds simple to me.
blue