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"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
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George,
Yep, torture. He's still got this silly grin on his face...
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Yeah, Lisa has it right, torture! Speaking of torture I have to tell you that whenever I am in Home Depot and have to ask one of the Depoettes about something and they give me "the look" and follow that up with, "well, what's HE (meaning my husband, who wouldn't know which end of the nail to drive!!) going to use it for?" I ALWAYS, reply, "BONDAGE"!!! LOL!!
Donna
*Oh, Donna.....you'll float...you'll find something you know you just have to float. Ya, you'll stare at your Hardi ( honestly I havent tried it yet, but sounds like I should!), but you'll know it just has to be floated.Mortar, Sand, Cement, and sometimes Lime.....Creature
*Donna, I myself marvel at the wonderful characteristics of Hardibacker. But, when I use it on walls--infrequently--I feel I am somehow giving an inferior installation. I'll continue to use it over wood subfloors though.
*Ok, I give up, why do you feel that using the hardi on walls is an inferior installation? Is it that "old school" training or do you really feel that it is inferior in some way?? I say put down that hoc and trowel, man, this stuff is the bomb! LOL!!Donna
*You go Hardie girl!...Back hand him with his own trowel if you have to.Near the stream,J
*Help me out. I thought this Hardibacker was used under ceramic tiles. How are you using it and what is it normally used for?
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I'm with you! I stopped even taking mine cause no one would talk to me. The problem is a HD etc, the salespeople know even less than I do, grrr! I'll try your answer, which should get some good responses in this biblebelt region...
Lisa
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Dennis,
I believe you're right. But then the conversation digressed to using it to wall in Home Depot sales associates.
*Thank you. I am always looking for the best, easiest way to do things. Somewhere I missed the digression. Interesting idea, though. So, on that thread, where do the sales associates learn how to ask if you need help when you don't and totally disappear when you do? Dennis
*Hardibacker on walls? Wow. Of course, I all readyi knewit could be used to wall in HD, uh, sales associates.Patty
*Donna, you pegged it...I mean, you absolutely NAILED me. But, Lets consider this: what thickness Hardibacker you using on the walls? If it is 1/4", what trim tile you gonna' use to avoid that unsightly wide grout joint down the wall? And, if the wall is already out of plumb/bowed, whatever, the Hardibacker will only mirror this. Looks God awful when you start putting things like glass doors or pefectly hung pictures near it.BTW: I learned way back in 8th grade, that when a gurl throws something at me I should not even duck 'cause her aim is so lousy that it is only when I go to move that she'll hit me with whatever she threw.
*Lisa, and Donna: What do you need? Help making decisions or a native-bearer? Why tote the old man along... leave him home to watch the Home Improvement shows on TV. Answer to your (Home Depot*) question:Wear dust covered clothes, old sneakers or boots and clip on a scarred-up 25 foot Stanley Tape. Works like a mouthful of garlic... not a (orange*) apron near by... less of course you find a truely qualified sales associate. (limit two per store, no rainchecks.)* Modify as needed for HQ/Lowes/BuildersSquare/etc...
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Is Hardibacker the same thing as cement board aka wonderboard? If not, what's the difference?
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oK, I've got to agree with you, there are definitely times, when the good old "wrap, scratch and brown" is the only way to go . To not agree would be the equivalent of saying the we don't need to know how to 'cipher, because we have calculators!!
I have to also admit my limited knowledge in the use of Hardie Backer, does it come in anything other than the 1/4"? I only saw the "Wonder Board" in varying thickness's.
BTW, good thing you didn't know me in the 8th grade....I'd have NAILED you on my first try... my aim is true!!!! LOL!
*A story to the contrary: my wife, whom I adore but can't tell plumb from level (which bubble do i look at?? she's getting much better; it's her father's fault for telling her that girls can't do these things), has been treated very well when I've asked her to pick up a whatchamacallit or two. She soemhow managed to find salespeople who neither treated her like a fool nor were fools themselves.I like the fools who argue with me when I know I'm right, like the nitwit I overheard telling a customer they didn't sell the telephone adapter he wanted, until I handed one to him from the rack a moment later. The apron guy didn't give me a very nice look. But some salespeople have been terrific, like the guy who turned heaven and earth to find me some of those round nut-things that you find in assemble-it-yourself furniture -- and gave me a bunch for free.
*Yes, Donna, I am a dyed in the wool hawk & trowel man. Sometimes wish I wasn't, but that's just my back complaining. Although, what better way to square/plumb/level/ flatten a wall/countertop/floor? Hardibacker does come in 3/8 & 1/2", as well as the typ. 1/4". To answer LisaL's Q: Hardibacker is similiar to Wonderboard, et al. in that it is used as a ceramic tile underlayment. But that is pretty much where the similarities end. Hardibacker is a fiberboard made of paper byproduct and some kind of binding agent. It is compressed, then autoclaved at, I believe, 2,400 degrees F. What this mfg. process does is make the product impervious to moisture. Once, to satisfy me, I did my own test on this product. I soaked a couple of pieces of different widths (2, 3, 6, 10, 12") in water until visible swelling occured. After 60 hours fully immersed there was no significant swelling. I measured with dial calipers and was able to detect only 3% or less swelling in thickness in the 2" piece.Wonderboard will absorb water to the point of swelling in thickness. (I know others will disagree on this point, but I have been on several jobs where the arch. spec'd Wonderboard for wet areas, including building Roman tubs and it just turned into doodoo.) Wonderboard is a cementatious (sp?) sandwich of two layers of 'glas mesh with a cement product core. It crumbles easily when cutting or nailing. Therefore, it should be screwed only. It sounds like I am sold on Hardibacker; I am. But, it is only from repeated field experience using different backerboards.
*The principal advantage I see to Hardibacker is that it's thin -- 1/4" and 3/8" -- which allows floor tiling with less elevation increase in the floor than from normal cement board. It's also remarkably rigid for its thickness. I wouldn't see the same advantage for a wall, where rigidity is less the issue than moisture resistance. Additionally, Hardibacker doesn't drill well, so roofing nails are the preferred means of attachment. Hammering too much on one side of a plaster wall can lead to repairing the other side. In my recent bathroom re-do, the thicker cement board was needed to provide a dimensionally seamless transition from the tiled area to the original plaster wall.
*Yes, Andrew, I agree that there are some "qualified" and not so qualified help out there. Even if they give me the incorrect response,(which really is the correct response) which would be "I don't know", I give them major points for that!! At least I know what I'm dealing with and continue my search....without them!! I was in a tile store one day when a customer came in and presented the little chickie behind the counter with a chunk of cement. His question to her was, "what kind of cement is in this?" She (honest to God!!) took the chunk of cement in her mouth, bit down on it and proclaimed it to be a 3 to 1 mix with "common"!!!LOL!! Now there my friends is a true taste tester/salesperson!!!!! Too funny!Donna
*Well, thank you Rich! I have gleaned a "pearl"!! I would have bet money on the "Hardie in water experiment", swelling, over the Wonder board!! Who would have thunk it!!Guess what I'll be using to "skirt" my tub!! Yes, I know that I probably should float it, but I am in Hardi Backer heaven at this point it time!!!!Donna
*So how does this stuff compare to Duroc?Dennis
*Durock and other cement boards are easier to cut, drill and nail than Hardibacker. As I posted, I see Hardibacker's principal advantage to be reduced elevation in a tiled floor.
*RE: screwing Hardibacker. Sure, until I figured it out, I had a hard time getting a screw started. But now, I even use #12 concrete screws in Hardibacker.What I do to screw backerboard successfully is first, use the right size size bit for the screwhead. Second, the screw tip should be sharp--careful, it'll poke flesh real well. Third, start with light pressure, let the screw bite before you apply more pressure. You could use one of those drill extensions that steadies the screw or use a power nailer if you are set on nailing.
*This is a good application for the McFeely's square drive screws. The bit grips more tightly, and their backerboard screws are plenty sharp. When i did some recently it was pretty much effortless (except for that hit-the-studs part...)
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I am in love with Hardi Backer,(don't tell my husband!) This stuff is the greatest, so easy and FAST!! OH YEAH!!!
Donna
*Donna, sorry, but you girls weren't supposed to learn about this for two more years... who told, and what did you do to get the information out of him? Torture? Magic Potion? Oh, the shame...