Anyone have experience putting man-made stone (like Owens-Corning Cultured Stone, for instance) over ICFs?
What I’m concerned about as I do this is the attachment method for the expanded metal lathe to the ICF. This particular ICF has a plastic tab every foot in every direction, and I am screwing the lathe to the every tab. As I go through this, I’m worrying myself that either the screws will pull out/break the plastic, or something else strange. the rock will be roughly 10 feet in height at the highest point.
It would be a lot more work to drill and lag into the concrete…but if I need to, I will.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Jamie
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Replies
I had the same issue with my house plans.
Our fix was to glue and screw 1/2" treated plywood to the ICF. Then the felt paper , lath and stone.
A call to Owens-Corning Cultured Stone will also likely net you thier approve method.
http://www.culturedstone.com/inquiry/
Bottom of the page has an 800 number.
Thanks, I'll give it a shot calling them.
THe local contractors and suppliers tell me that what I'm doing is fine, and I generally trust them, but there are very few ICF structures here in my part of Iowa, and even fewer with rock over ICF. So.........I'm paranoid. :)
Thanks again,
Jamie
Jamie I went a differant route in that I used ICF's with a brick ledge and used real stone (it was cheaper) However you may be past that point. What I did on the inside was to screw wood into the plastic tabs.. If you predrill the screw holes you can feel it tightening up just like sheetrock.
If you'd like to see the results look at 94941.1
Edited 8/27/2009 7:46 am ET by frenchy
Yep, I'm past that stage, Frenchy. In fact, I was not planning on using rock at first, I was going to put on the stucco-ish products that are out there. When I thought about it, I didn't think I was goinig to like the look of that stucco on my house in the middle of the woods - seemed too "city like".
Anyway, I therefore put no brickledge in at all on these sides of the house.
Thanks for your reponse,
Jamie
Hey Jamie, I'm in the central Iowa area, and have stone at a 10'+ height. I did not install it, but watched carefully. The lath is screwed on with truss headed galvanized screws, lots of them. My block is the from PolySteel and has metal attachment and reinforcements. A scratch coat was applied on top of the lath, then the stone.One other think I'll toss out...depending on your block and the length of time it has been exposed to the sun, there may be some oxidation on the foam surface. The polysteel blocks turn a creamy color and if you rub your hand on them, it looks like an off color baking flour. Broom it off with a firm bristled shop broom and rinse with water. My thought was that if I didn't remove that fine layer it could possibly affect the bonding of the scratch coat. Two winters and only 1 small piece of stone let go...but after looking at it, I'm convinced it wasn't set properly the first time.
Cool - so you're essentially saying that the stone to scratch coat came loose on that one stone, not the lath to ICF connection, if i understood you correctly.
my ICF has been exposed for a bit - a long bit. :)
I built the whole place myself, from the footings to the finish stuff...so my schedule for getting things done can best be described as snail-like.
thanks for your input.
JF
You're right...the stone let go of the scratch coat. What's kind of cool is that when you tap on the stone with something that's solid like a screwdriver the wall has a "ting" sound...not hollow or empty...odd.How do you think I found out about the oxidation ;-) The first clue was when the poly foam glue wouldn't stick well to an oxidized block. My wife and I did the same thing from footing up. 10' foot basement walls, 9' first floor.Best of luck..
I see you're in Ames...I went to ISU for about 2 years before they kicked me out. Awesome school and town, I wish I hadn't screwed that up.
JF
You are absolutely correct about the "sound" of the wall after scratch coat. It makes a funny, kind of tin-canny sound. I would not have expected that in a million years, i woudl have expected the foam to absorb the sound if anything. Funny.
Jamei
Read what I wrote just above.Then use the screws with large heads or fender washers to screw to the webs in your ICFS and you will be fine.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin.
Are you familiar with Dryvit? Basically it's a stucco like product you smear on foam. I've seen countless homes, shops, businesses, and schools done with that product over the last decade and a half..
Seems to hold up well, extremely well. Sure goes on fast and easy.
Yes, I have used a similar elastomeric product. Why do you ask? It has nothing to do with stone or fake stone on ICFs.
But it does require freshening the foam if it has been exposed to the sun.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Two reasosn..
first;
It is a viable solution to the matter of how to deal with the exterior of ICF's and second to get others opinon on brands and techniques..
Second;
Like I said most of my thousands of network contacts are out of the construction business completely and I no longer know who to call to get solid advice..
Any foam should be scarified with a wire brush and then painted with a binding agent first before apply any of the toppings.You were right to broom it to remove the UV destroyed foam dust, but scratching it up further provides some key for mechanical bonding while the bonding agent adds some tacky to help with chemical bonding.It is also good to use a sealer on the finished surface to help prevent water from wicking into the assembly where it can freeze.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
went and looked at your pics - i've been around here a long time and have looked at them before, but I'd forgotten how cool your place is.
Very nice, I'm jealous you're on Minnetonka......
Jamie
Thank you.. I've wanted to live on this lake since I was a kid.. I hope to live here until I push up daisys..
I have applied cultured stone to Nudra(sp) ICFs and to this point have had no problems. It has been on for two winters with no separation. I attached the metal lathe with galvanized screws and then a scratch coat. About the highest I went was 8 feet.
Hope this helps.
John
wow, that's another cool, interesting place. WHere you located? Lots of square feet? looks like it...
An interesting thing I have foudn with the screws I'm using is that coarse threaded screws tend to crack the plastic tabs. Had to search high and low for some exterior fine threaded screws to use.
Jamie
Jamie,It's located just south of Cleveland, Ohio. It's the old family barn. My brother thought I should have burnt it down instead of converting it to a house (soon I hope). I will say that Tom Hanks and Shelly Long have nothing on my "Money Pit".The footprint of the barn is 30x60 with a three car garage added on. The first level is ICF's and SIPs on the rest of the barn.I started in Sept 2004. We are in the finishing stages now.John
John You've got nothing on me.. I started sept 2001 I finally finished the outside last year and now I have almost all of the interior left to do..
(finish work that is) go to 85891.1 & 94941.1 if you'd like to see pictures..
the best bet is to screw 3/4 inch pwf plywood to the icf then apply as you would a normal frame wall . ie building paper, diamond mesh, scratch coat pwf I meant pressure treated plywood
Edited 9/8/2009 11:15 pm ET by ThomasBarlow
What is pwf ply?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Sorry,
I meant pressure treated plywood
GB