I have a cottage in Maine which now sits on pt 6x6s (supposedly) set to ledge. I’m looking to replace these with something more permanent & better looking. Is there a way to make sonotubes more attractive? Anyone have any experience in this department? Pouring to grade and capping them with pieces of granite or…?
Many thanks, -Otis
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Replies
There are always tile, stone, concrete stain, epoxy finishes, etc. to change the exposed concrete portion. Many times code requirements dictate the concrete extend above grade. They don't necessarily have to be round, so whatever shape fits your situation could be used.
For instance, out west moss-covered rock or river rock are both popular in mountain cabins so it's common to see the round sonotube projections wrapped in stone.
As for any exposed concrete-to-wood brackets, custom brackets can be fabricated and powder coated for a sharp look, or there are mfgs that have these (even Simpson?) in limited styles.
Cheers,
Don
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Don- When you say "wrapped" in stone, what do you mean - do you create a ledge to set the stone on, like doing a stone veneered foundation?-Otis
The tubes I'm thinking of were simply wrapped on all sides with the moss rock. Essentially the concrete is wrapped in chicken wire and is skimmed with mortor. This attaches the wire to the concrete and some portions of the wire poke out and makes an attachment point for the heavy rocks, which are simply wired on until the mortor sets up. Wire is cut and the gaps between rocks are filled (pointed?).
:-)
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
You could use some large diameter plastic pipe instead of cardboard for a more finished look.
Sand-finish (or any finish) stucco would give a more finished look. Use a bonding agent.
j_.... what is so impermanent about PT 6x6 ?
do you detect any rot ?
unless you are going to change the grade , the sonotubes will not be any more attractive.. you can always nail a skirt to your 6x6.. but the sonotubes are more problematical
and.. even if you decide to change the grade, you can always bury your PT 6x6.. assuming , of course , that they are treated to .40 and are really PT.. often times people substitute 6x6 landscape timbers, which WILL rot
we bury PT posts all the time, and have been doing so since the early '80's
Mike- I'm considering adding to the building as well, which would render some of the footings totally inaccessible in the future (I'm obviously not concerned about the appearance of those, but while I'm at it I figured I might as well deal with all of 'em) - what sort of lifespan do you figure for PT? I'd be *really* unhappy if I had to deal with one of the "hidden" footings down the line.... On the plus side, my soil is pretty sandy and seems to drain pretty well, esp. as compared to the clay that's common nearby.-Otis
j.. first i don't know where you are located.. but in the east.. all PT is SYP .. and i've never seen certified SYP PT treated to .40 rot..
and if it is going to rot , it will be because of a pitch pocket or some other reason the treatment couldn't penetrate.. ie: if it is going to rot it will rot in about the same time line as untreated material..
so , my thinking is.. if it hasn't rotted yet, it ain't going to
we bury all our pt posts ( for greater lateral resistance ).. for decks and pole buildings .. with pole buildings and All-wood foundations , the retention required is .60 by code...
so, anyways , my experience with pt is good.. and i would not replace my pt posts with concrete because of a rot issueMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, I would not be so confident about that treated lumber. In the last 3 years , I have had the need to remove parts of treated structures that I built about 20 years ago and was shocked to find some of these 6x6 posts to be so rotten.
These were .60 SYP in three different locations and all in sugar sand. I could remove a post that looked like the day I put it in the ground, and 6' away take out the next post and there was absolutely nothing left of it.
There is obviously a huge difference in the way these posts take treatment. I was so rattled by that experience, that I vowed never to bury a treated post again.
I still think about some of the large decks or additions I have built that are quite a ways off the ground and keep my fingers crossed that they stay up.
The last one of these structures was owned by a large lumber dealer (who originally supplied the posts). He took pictures as we removed them and took them to a session he was attending that week. The crowd was speechless!
bo... if you aren't going to bury posts, how are you going to build pole buildings ?
confidence ? the only thing i'm confident in is that no matter what, someone or something will prove me wrong.. that's the whole problem of saying something.... i'll just muddle on..
seriously... suppose your pole building has 20 poles, how many do you think might be rotted out in 20 years ?
2 ?...... 3 ? if so, i'd cut the bottom off and dutchman them
as for decks, a cursory inspection will turn up any problem.. and posts rotting on the bottom is not going to lead to catastrophic failure.. it's going to lead to an unsightly settling.. so the alarms go off and you replace the post
isn't that what you did ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Some one posted this link a while back in a similar discussion. Looks like it might be a good solution and it allows you to use untreated lumber in protected situations.
http://www.permacolumn.com/index.htm
Mike, You are right about the pole buildings. There seems to be no alternative to burying poles in the ground.
What really scares me are the very high projections or additions I have put on houses that depend on the structural integrity of these posts.
The rotted posts I have found so far have been on structures relatively close to the ground. I worry about the ones that are 10' or 12' off the ground on the side of a big hill. The rot I found in these three instances was so bad that some of the structures I've built could have completely collapsed under the right circumstances.
I don't think it's anything to lose sleep over if you have a low deck, but I would never add an addition to a house again and use treated wood buried in the ground for the main support.
The problem of course, is that you may discover the rot only after a big deck collapses and hurts a bunch of people. The little bit of extra expense or work that it takes to use concrete in the ground is worth the peace of mind to me.
bo...what do the advocates of the All-Wood Foundation say ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Funny you should ask. I just came from a friends house with a wood foundation. He had a problem with a basement sump and wanted me to look at it. I went into the room and smelled something peculiar and asked him what it was. He said it always smelled like that.
Further investigation revealed moldy looking drywall, so I pushed on it a little and it was basically mush. I pulled a chunk off the bottom of the wall and found the thickest mass of mold I have ever seen inside the stud cavity. The whole cavity was filled with it from top to bottom. It looks to me as if all of the stud bays on that side of the house are experiencing the same problem.
This is in sugar sand!! You can see signs of water entering from the outside, so I'm assuming his sheet of poly on the outside has failed him. I could tell horror stories about watching these guys backfill some of these wood basements. By the time they are done, there is nothing left but the bare plywood.
I have never been a fan of them!! They are rare in our neck of the woods.
BTW, I enjoy reading your posts. You do beautiful work and always have something interesting to offer!
i've always wondered about their longevity.. i saw the first one go in here in the late '70's.. guy owned a Pressure Treating company.... house is still standing... ????
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Martha Stewart did a piece about dressing up bland concrete pours with common items found in most prison gift shops.
go to her website...
:l
Mr. T.
There's a steering-wheel in me pants and it's driving me nuts!!!
Thanks for the tip - there's actually a prison industries store nearby, but Since Martha was not a guest at the Thomaston SuperMax, I fear that their goods might be a little behind the times style-wise. Worth a look, though!-Otis
We poured Sono tube columns for a bank years ago. IFRC they were 14' of exposed 16" concrete columns, once the tubes were stripped. After the cure period was over we used a square bushing bit in a demo hammer to texture the surface. That was a labor intensive process, with a 2" square bit, but the results were much better than plane concrete. I think it could have been more attractive with washed river rock in the mix instead of the normal crushed limestone. Would have given them the look of exposed aggregate, like you see in flat work.
Another option I have seen in square columns, is to build the forms with a pattern inside them. Lots of options with that one if you have a creative nature. You end up with a sculptured relief column, like the cedar shingle siding designs, but in concrete.
Think out of the box!
At least that is what DW is always telling me :)
BTW, welcome to Breaktime.
Dave
Edited 2/13/2006 8:29 am ET by DaveRicheson
An idea that might be worth a try: Dribble melted parafin wax on the inside of the tube before the pour. You could probably get a pretty good variety of patterns or textures. At least it would disguise the spiral wrap look.
-- J.S.
I've never worked with Sonotubes and am just wondering how you strip them? Cut vertically with a utility knife to ground level, then cut around the tube? Or is it strong enough that you have to use a circular saw?
If you want Sonotubes above grade, they make a version that does not have the spiral look when stripped.
I assume the cardboard has worn off. If not, you can cut/scrape it off to get down to the concrete.
Personally, I like the look of a rounded concrete column. But if you want something else:
You could of course paint or stucco the concrete.
A more expensive option is to enclose it in bricks. That would look more permanent.