My brother had a soffit removed, called a electrician to reroute wiring.
Called me to ask what this thing was. New to me.
Looks like a manufactured item, as opposed to some hacked up wire nut nest, but still not accessible.
Any tips?
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
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Replies
Would love your input.
Thanks, J.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Don't know what's under the heat shrink tubing, but that's a "FLYING SPLICE".
Not good!
It needs to be in a box and accessible.
Bill
That's what I was thinking - the general acceptance that any junction has to be at least accessable.
I know that there are some connectors that don't have to be in a box.
But they still have to have access.
Just wanted to know if this is some new device that is o.k. to use in this scenario.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
OK to use? No, it's not. It looks like the guy used a crimp connector, or even a ground clamp, and covered it with the tubing. It's still a splice that should be in a box, and accessible.
A small cheat, but a cheat nonetheless.
yeah it may or may not be safe. It could very well sit there and mind it's own business for all eternity.
But definitely not "per code".
what get's my arse in a twist is that a real
"electrician"
Knows's better, but goes's ahead and dose it anyway!
I'd really like to know what's under that heat shrink???
I thought the same, but there is soooo much new stuff available every day I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being the typical loud mouth quoting some old, outdated ####.
Muchos grassyass.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
What is it? Illegal -- if you're gonna put that wallboard back up. (Looks like maybe a splice unit for underground wire.)
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
OK, that's what I was thinkin' .
Tanks.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Looks like an Etcon inground splice.
http://www.etcon.com/
If so I'd say have it removed.
Now I know what it is.
much appreciated.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Offhand, it looks like an underground splice block. Probably as good as one can do in a "flying splice", and probably safe, but not code.
(I personally feel that NEC should work with wiring device mfgrs to come up with a code-accepted non-accessible splice technique, but the only thing so far is one that's only certified for modular housing.)
Gotcha.
We'll get it changed out with what You and I would normally do.
Just didn't want to jump the gun due to my own ignorance of technology in a field that I don't play in 24 - 7.
Much abliged.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
It could be one of several things.
A direct BURIAL splice kit, several butt splices covered by heat shrink, or a mobile home splice.
There is a mobile home splice that does not need a box, but it has to remain accessable. So that is not acceptable.
Now maybe if he wants to fill the walls with mud he could use a direct burial splice <G>.
But, whatever it is, it has to be accessable in the wall and except for the mobile home splice it has to be in a box.
In general accessable means that you can get to it without using anything more that a screw driver, but it does not need to be "readily accessable". For example you might have to remove the contents of a kitchen cabinet, remove the shelves, then unscrew an acess panel in the back of the cabinet, then remove the coverplate over the box.
You don't try to do things like that, but sometimes that is the way that they end up. Or use existing boxes for unrelated circuits. When thsoe kind of tricks are done it is best to write it up and tape it to the panel or similar for the next person that comes along.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Perfect - I bow.
Will get it accessible.
Let me know what I owe ya.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
My electricians tell me that there is a code approved in wall UL listed splice kit available now. I haven't run into a scenario where one was necessary yet so I don't know what it looks like.
I just know they tell me one is available.
I think they were referring to a TYCO model like this one:
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(ivlazn55kioavhfaozb1sbe4)/productdetails.aspx?sku=3238110
But that one doesn't look anything like the one you show. Yours doesn't look like any underground splice I've seen either. They generally have a plastic enclosure that is filled with resin after the splice is made to waterproof the connection.
Edited 12/28/2007 12:41 pm ET by redeyedfly
Some of the underground splice kits use a heatshrink tubing with a flowable sealant in them.As to the Tyco splice that you show. It is covered by this section of code. 334.40(B)."334.40 Boxes and Fittings(A) Boxes of Insulating Material Nonmetallic outlet boxes shall be permitted as provided by 314.3.(B) Devices of Insulating Material Switch, outlet, and tap devices of insulating material shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished. Openings in such devices shall form a close fit around the outer covering of the cable, and the device hall fully enclose the part of the cable from which any part of the covering has been removed. Where connections to conductors are by binding-screw terminals, there shall be available as many terminals as conductors. (C) Devices with Integral Enclosures Wiring devices with integral enclosures identified for such use shall be permitted as provided by 300.15(E)."But they still need to be accessable..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Bill,I am away from my NEC books, but from your quote, there is no requirement for accessibility. It says in (B) that there can be devices used without boxes in concealed and fished old work. Is there more to the section that you didn't quote?I DO think splices should be accessible for future troubleshooting.Frank DuVal
Well it says two different things."permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring "If it is exposed, then it is accessable."rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished"Now that only mentiones the cable being concealed.This does not override anyother sections which mention accessabilities.There might be more clarification in the UL listings..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
That looks like the ones I have seen in modular housing to connect the two halves together. What I had referred to before - thought they could be out of a box but still needed to be accessible.
I'm running out of appreciative comments...
Salllluuuuute.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Whats above and below? Can you install j-boxes in the basement and attic?
" Whats above and below? "
A house.
"Can you install j-boxes in the basement and attic?"
I can do anything - I am a remodelling contractor.
We will get it into shape one way or another.
Probably the way you are hinting towards, which is the way I would have done it in the first place - as I know you would. I just didn't want to jump the gun if this was something on the leading edge that I had not come across yet.
Now I gotta get the damn thesaurus, hold on.
Please accept my gratitude.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
You finding many cutting edge things buried behind drywall in an old house?
Yeah, especially behind the drywall under the old medicine cabinets. :-)
It wasn't "found"
It will have it's first birthday 363 days from now.
Hard to put an entire history of a residence/ remod here in a post - my fault for not including every last detail - seriously I try to put up stuff that is readable with the pertinant info so people can learn from it.
Appreciate any input, but I think we've figured out by now that this is not some new device that is rated for this application.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I thought about that just as I hit the post button.
It wasn't found.
The " electrician" just installed that two days ago.
They are going through an extensive redo of a 10 -15 year old house. Part of the kitchen aspect of the project was to get rid of the soffits. The soffits were removed about a week ago and the electrician was called in to re-route the wires that used to run through the soffits, - He INSTALLED that splice.
Look, I'm not new at this - I just needed to ask here about the situation that I was presented with, to make sure I was right. Please don't take that as being non-appreciative. I do this for a frickin' living too. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something new that came out or changed in the NEC and allowed this sh!t to occur. And I do my stuff in OHIO I know things are different in other locales.
I would go up and live there and do the project if I could, But at this point I am backed up until July with alot of projects of the same scope here in my own location.
You want to travel to Plymouth and help me help him out? Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I wasnt impling you didnt know what were doing. I misread you OP.
As it turns out i'm not too busy and Plymouth isnt too far. I'll come work. I just finished my latest rental project and my schedule is pretty light.
I may not have implide it or included it in my OP, maybe my bad.
We've both read too many posts here and wondered why they didn't include some piece of info. Then when you post one here yourself you try to keep it short and sweet to keep people from having to read too much minutia. I understand.
They are redoing a house in Plymouth and this is the latest of the "problems " they have incurred. I don't have a hand in it, but i sure wish I could.
It's a pretty fast schedule - which is why it's hard for me to be as much help as I could be under better circumstances.
Don't know why I didn't think of you sooner.
He will be here later to check this thread.
Got a feeling from your threads in the past that you do the same as me.
Could be a good fit as I told him to look for " me " in his area.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Edited 12/28/2007 10:45 pm ET by JHOLE
Appology , just looked at my first post and you're right - not alot of information. My bad.
Was aiming for someone who knew what the installed connection was.
It was just installed in the last couple days by an electrician who was called in to reroute the wires that used to lay in a soffit that was removed. I have not layed eyes on the project for a couple of months so I am going on the pics also.
I will post better next time.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
No problems. If you're serious about getting me in there shoot me an e-mail.
[email protected]
I wouldnt mind taking a look at the project.