*
Patrick I would think that program would eliminate a lot of hack artists of which we have plenty in eastern Oklahoma. Around here its pretty much let your conscience be your guide and stay one step ahead of your bad reputation. The handful of us that are conscientious and do quality work have to try to explain our (outrageous) bids because of these cut throats. Is this a problem in your neck of the woods.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Fine Homebuilding's editorial director has some fun news to share.
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
*
Joe aren't you in New York. I would have thought building regs to be pretty strict there. I'm in rural eastern Oklahoma. They only do mechanical inspections here (kinda) no structural whatsoever.
*
S C
I certainly understand and sympathize with your viepoint and your sentiment, but 8 hours isn't going to elevate someone from being a potential hack artist, in fact one might argue that giving someone the impression that 8 hours will teach them
i enough
to get by, might even create more hack artists.
And yes we have more than our share of hackers around here, and they certainly dilute the job pool, and give the legit types a bad rep.
-pm
*Sorry if my note of sarcasm about an eight hour course designed by a building inspector didnt carry through. That is what I am trying to fix. Though that is semester hours not just 8 actual hours. I might be able to teach some fundamentals of new construction in that time, but that is about it. I need information on proper courses and cirriculum so I can set something up here. I have never taken a course in my life. I learned from my father and grandfather mostly. I am also a voracious reader. So I have no actual experience in a classroom.Rick Tuk
*Rick; when I was teaching a couple of years ago, it was a new program that had never been taught in the area before, and we did a fair bit of research as part of curriculum development. There are lots of schools out there who already have programs up and going, and many of them have their curriculums posted on the internet, with their course descriptions and reading lists included. We also contacted a lot of programs directly, and found without exception that everyone was willing to help out with resources and constructive advice. You probably don't need to reinvent the whell, but you can maybe improve on it a little. A starting place where I know you can get solid info (and I'm suggesting this cause I don't know the American school system that well) is the Canadian tech. school system. Best bets: Northern Alberta Institute of Technology (NAIT) and Southern Alberta (SAIT)- both have carpentry and cabinetmaking and millwork programs like Patrick described. The Coomunity College System in Ontario; Algonquin College is where I trained in cabinetmaking (they also teach carpentry), but there are many others. British Columbia has an apprenticeship program in Joinery (finish carp.) with a really first rate set of teaching manuals that covers everything from basic joinery to advanced stairs, hardware, lots and lots of info. Those are some starting points, I know you can find them all on the web. Most school systems up here now offer a one year pre-employment program, to give people an intro to the field and help them get their first job; more in depth two year 'technology'programs; and trad. apprenticeship programs with three in-school periods and on the job training. Good luck.
*S Crawford; you wouldn't be related to our Chuck Crawford, would you, also from OK?
*Rick,Audell makes a good series of carpentry books. I refer to them from time to time. They are no nonsense and although a bit dated, the information is right on track.Good luck,Ed. Williams
*The book I used in class is "Carpentry,2nd. edition" by Loenard Koel.One of the better I've seen.Covers practically all the basics.It's about 700 pages long, I went thru a 15 month full time program and recieved an Associates Degree in Carp./Const. technology. I don't know if the info in the book could be scaled down to fit your time requirements and still be useful.Very good sections on roof framing.
*Ah ha, I thought that handwriting looked familiar. Yep Adrian, thats my younger brother S, but I call him Steve for short. Guess I cant tell lies anymore, he may call me on it, or rat me out to mom. Chuck
*Thanks everyone,that gives me a great start. I have a couple of weeks to get some ideas on paper before i meet with the advisory council. Keep that information comming. Maybe we can start a , questions from the apprentices section. last time I talked about a training program I was contacted by several young people who live around here. I think they would like to hear from us but do not know what to ask.Rick Tuk
*I Think you all are missing the point. We have to many hackers as carpenters allready. At least they are trying to make an effort and stop the gross mistreatment of construction. Rick I would contact the Associated General Contractors and see if they can help. But I do have to say that, eight hours is a very short time perod for a certificate. Jason
*
I am meeting with our local tech school next month about starting some carpentry classes. They are starting one now that they designed themselves. One class in basic woodworking, one in cabinetry, and one in trim work. 8 hours and you get their carpentry certificate. The course is designed by a former building inspector. I need help. I need any information I can get on courses and texts we can use to set up a proper carpentry training course. I meet with the advisory board next month.
Thanks in advance
Rick Tuk
*Rick,I find myself recommending "Residential Carpentry" by Mortimer Reed alot because it's been used around here alot in voc. programs and it's easy to find in used book stores (it's kinda spendy new). Good overview and I use it as a first look quite often but it would have to "Regionalized" by a knowlegable instructor.There is also a "Basic Wood Frame Construction " book that is a great primer on framing. Cant find mine right now but I think Joe Fuscoe had it listed on his web site. I think it is a revision of an army training manual which could be another place to look for source materials. Maybe some military trained carpenters could shed some light on that. One nice thing I remember about Army training manuals was that they assumed coming in that you were a complete idiot. I seldom disappointed.Hope to hear more about your project in the future.JonC
*RickEight hours = certificate. . . so what's the certificate worth in the job market?? In Ontario three 8 week in school sessions plus 7,200 hours on the job as an apprentice, and passing a very stringent exam at the end will get you your licence. The book that they still use is written by Leonard Coles. Gene L. has mentioned it so it must be available in the States.My cabinetmaking accreditation cost me 230 hours in school.What the hell can you teach anyone about a trade in 8 hours?-pm
*Patrick I would think that program would eliminate a lot of hack artists of which we have plenty in eastern Oklahoma. Around here its pretty much let your conscience be your guide and stay one step ahead of your bad reputation. The handful of us that are conscientious and do quality work have to try to explain our (outrageous) bids because of these cut throats. Is this a problem in your neck of the woods.
*
Joseph Fusco View Image