I don’t need detailed instructions on installing cabinets, but I would like one question answered–shouldn’t one work from a level line established from the highest point on the floor (for the base cabinets) and install the wall cabinets along another level line? Guy I’m working with is just putting counter top line as determined by a couple measurements up from the floor (at each end of the counter along a wall) and then has measured down from the ceiling at each end of the wall cabinets to line up their bottoms. Doesn’t seem right to me. I can see that the ceiling is not level (nor is the floor).
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Replies
It depends.
Typically, I take my high point on the floor and work off that. Establish my counter height and work my uppers off of that.
However, other variables need to be considered....height of appliances...space to ceiling...window heights....etc.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Yes, you do try to use the high point of the floor if it's really bad off level. Sometimes, if not bad, you can join the cabinets and strsight edge them from end to end. on the ceiling if you crown right up to the ceiling and you want the reveals even, or pretty close to it, you may split the difference and try to get a general "balance" to the lower/upper cabinet measurement. This depends on if you are tiling to the uppers and how they will "read", regarding size of tiles at the upper's lower edge.
Your commonsense is mostly right....just try to see all the variables ahead...that's the finish game if you want to be good at it.
I don't understand...the only way that made sense to me was to determine high point in floor and go from that. It's easier to shim up then attempt to cut meat off the bottom of cabinets to make them all the same height(elevation). Of course, if your floor were absolutely level across the whole room then I guess it wouldn't matter. No matter what you do, you can chalk it up to educational expense if it doesn't work out. All you have to do is decide if you want to live with the finished result or tear it out and attempt another method on the second try. Either way you learn which way is correct and you won't repeat the same mistake twice. Best of Luck either way!
Part of life is learning!
I will agree with the other posters about high spots, but many times I will need to use a cabinet with a finished, exposed end panel as my starting point. It's ok to cut or plane them, but shimming to leave a gap under just isn't acceptable.
I get paid to do carpentry. That makes me a professional.
If I work on my own house does that make me a DIY?
generally ...
but sounds like what he's doing is 100% wrong.
unless he's certain that the floor and/or ceiling is acceptably level ... which ... I can see from here it ain't.
a level reference line of some sort is the general idea. I usually shoot for working off the high spot. I have a buddy that sets his lazer level and marks a ref line where ever it happens to be ... then measures up or down from there ... same idea.
There are times when the best install involves cutting down cab's as opposed to the much easier/quicker shimming up. Sometimes cutting down a run makes the tall fridge end panel sit tight to the floor ... as they look best "un'base'd/un-shoe'd" ... especially if there's a 1 1/2" face frame style running down and no skin on the side with the 1/4" ear ...
also ... there are times when having the island cab's match "level" exactly are the planned result ... and if there's a beam running under that wide open kitchen ... U can bet there's some sag in that floor ... usually right where the island is supposed to set.
Very first thing I do is lay both the 4ft and 7ft level on the floor and kick them around for a coupla minutes.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Thanks to you and ALL who responded: We are replacing cabinets in a house and I can see the old level line the previous guys used and ours is close to level, but when I put a laser level on our line it was off 3/8" over the 10 foot wall. We will be having fun, because the end wall, which is an outside wall with a window in the corner and a window in the wall between counter top and bottom of wall cabinets, is leaning back 1". Then the line on the third wall he marked for the bottom of the top cabinets goes from being about 1" from the top of the "backsplash" window to missing it by about 3"! Seems that would look pretty bad.
Maybe when he actually starts putting the cabinets up, he will adjust. He is putting in crown, so I can see that then the uppers must be a set distance from the ceiling, but still there will be this climbing effect made apparent by the line not following the top of the window. Seems like you can get away with a cabinet out of level if there's nothing level nearby to compare it to, but in this case there is, and it is so obviously off,...well, we'll see.
Oh, previous installers couldn't seem to hit studs (you can see rows of up to six holes near studs), so they finally bashed holes in the bays in every bay! I guess they never thought of locating one stud (preferably with a screw or small hole and wire) and marking 16" centers off of that (and they were exactly 16" o.c.)!
If a window out of square, or level, is giving you headaches, consider setting the cabs level and at the height that works best and cheating some new trim around the window itself. You'll be less likely to pick up on the fact that the window is out if the spacing between cabs and window trim is close.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
maybe he's already a step ahead of us ...
like Jay said ... if the crown is gonna follow a crooked ceiling ... and that crooked crown line is close enough to the top of the cabs to be highlighted ...
ya gotta find that fine line between "plumb/level" and "remodelers eye" ...
sometimes outta plumb and outta level look best in the end.
I've set runs of uppers each an 8th or so down from the next to follow a crooked ceiling better when I had some FF mounted crown on the cab's to hide the tops.
Split the difference between the ceiling ... slope the cab's a bit ... tip the crown a bit ... and fudge the lowers ... and suddenly it all disappears.
Just gotta make sure the wine glasses don't fall over!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Thanks again. As it turns out, the ceiling wasn't that far off of level, the guy I work with had measured wrong--the window is about equidistant from the ceiling, so that problem is "solved". The floor not being level (or flat) will somehow be worked out as we go I guess. There are numerous other little glitches that bother me about this job, but, hey, I'm just the hired help (strong back and a weak mind).
For instance, the subfloor, while glued and nailed to the floor joists, is only 1/2" OSB and some of the joints are not blocked so they deflect and squeak. Marc says that'll be taken care of when we add the Durock and the tile (!--I know, tile backer adds no strength and I'm afraid the movement will crack this wonderful 20" slate tile we are putting down--or at least crack along the grout lines). [I thought we should block the joints and stop the squeaks now. Still, nothing can be done about their use of 1/2" instead of 3/4" subfloor. Marc says we need the room--can't add another layer of plywood (and we just finsished busting our tails removing the 1/2" plywood that was glued, screwed and nailed (with anular ringed nails yet!)).]
The customer wants a granite topped island, and it is sort of comma-shaped. I pointed out that the shallow curve at the one end will be impossible to actually sit at and there will be no room for a place setting. Customer doesn't care, she likes the look of it. So I'm biting my tongue and am just supplying the brawn. They did at least move the oven so one can actually stand in front of it to open the oven door and not be pushing one's arse into the refrigerator.
Anyway, it gets frustrating to work on jobs like this!
(strong back and a weak mind).
Not according to the points you've raised in your posts.
Continue to "argue" against the mistakes you're picking up on. Perhaps the "boss man" will begin to recognize his errant ways.
If nothing else, there's always "I told ya so" at days end.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Jeff ,
When your crown goes to a ceiling that is way off say an inch or so , imo the wall cabs need to read level it is so much at eye level that it stands out like a sore thumb if say they were off like the ceiling .
Worst case scenario , has happened several times to me is I have had to run a slightly larger flat type of crown mold and actually scribe off the inch or so from the top of the molding to maintain an even reveal from the top of the doors to the bottom of the crown .
Some things will never disappear , but can be made to look acceptable with a little finesse .
regards dusty
how good you are is how good you fix your mistakes
I set my cabinets level off the high spot in the floor. There is well over a 1" droop so part of the cabinets are seriously built up. Which isn't by itself much of a problem, but the countertop is about 1" above the stove. More heat is getting on the side of the laminate than I'd like. Now I have to make a lift for the stove to get it level.
This is a better option than cutting the bottom inch off of the dishwasher though!
splat
Danno,
No matter what I try and set the wall cabinets level , not necessarily completely against the ceiling sometimes or on one end .
If there is an inside corner in the layout I start there for the base. Yes the high point needs to be found .
I have scribed cabinets to the floor when I had to , but typically shimming up the bottom is industry standard, then a base shoe or base mold to cover the gap can be used .
I set my boxes before the tile is installed so that gives another opportunity to cover any gap . As was posted it is difficult to cut the feet off a dishwasher or other appliance , so scribing to the floor may not always work out for the best .
One thing I have learned in the last 30 years is to set the job the way it looks best . whether it is perfectly level and plumb or not .
good luck dusty