Can someone tell me the correct way to install crown molding? I am going to do this in my bedroom. Walls are already painted and ceilings are popcorn.
Do I need to put up any type of hanger strip? Do I put nails on the bottom into the wall or at the top into the ceiling or both? Where would I caulk considering it’s popcorn ceiling? Would I use adhesive caulk or non-adhesive?
Nail wise I have a 15g angle nailer, I’m told that is a proper size for crown. What length should I use? I’m using the standard crown from Home Depot, 2 3/4″ across.
Thanks
Replies
ESM, for any of us to tell you how to do it properly would require us to write a magazine length article. So my suggestion is to do a search in Fine Homebuilding's archives and there's probably an article that will tell you exactly how to do it.
I will say that the gun you have, a miter saw, and a coping saw are all you need. When you're done some latex caulk will fill any gaps and nail holes.
Thank you God for Life, Love, and Music
Ditto on trying to write it down here; go back to HD and get the book;
Crown Molding & Trim (its blue w white print on the cover)
also http://www.compoundmiter.com
if you still need help on special tricks holler!
Like the previous poster wrote, there's quite a bit to installing crown molding if it's the first time you're doing it. You'll need a miter saw and a jig to hold the crown molding at the spring angle (probably 52/38) or a a compound miter saw (set to a miter/bevel based on the spring angle).
I nail to the top (into the joists) OR the bottom (into the studs) depending on the the wall. I try to make the crown molding conform as best as possible without changing the angle. You'll need to locate the joists/studs before you start, but any exploratory nail holes will be covered by the crown molding so it's easy. A 21/2" finishing nail should work well. Do cope the inside corners, miters don't work well.
Any paintable latex caulk is fine. Whether or not you use it depends on the consistency of the gap between the wall/crown and ceiling/crown. If it's a nice clean consistent gap (unlikely), I like to avoid caulk. If you caulk, plan on re-painting as necessary to get a good finish. I paint the ceiling first overlapping onto the crown, then the crown overlapping onto the wall and then the wall.
If by "hanger strip" you mean some kind of backer to attach the crown to, it's not really necessary, but it can be used to enhance the crown molding if done properly and some may find it easier if the walls are irregular. It may actually be necessary if the walls are plaster because the backer can be screwed (rather than nailed) to avoid damage. The crown would then be nailed to the backer.
Hope this helps,
Don
You don't need a compound miter saw. You cut it on a reverse. We refer to it as "upside down and backwards."
Cutting this simple small crown any other way, whether it be cutting it on the flat or coping or a combination of the two is a waste of time.
Normally I'd mark all the studs lightly with a pencil just underneath where the bottom of the crown would be and do the same on the ceiling with the joists where they run perpendicular to the crown. Where they are parallel I would install backing made from ripped ply or 2x material (depends on the size of the crown itself) but in your case this stuff is small enough just to nail into the studs on those walls, or shoot 2 1/2" nails into the plate, probably about in the middle of your crown but you can experiment to max out how high with different angles you can get your nails.
If you're talking caulk I'd assume you're planning to paint the crown? You could also draw lines and try knocking down some of the popcorn or if it hasn't been painted ten times you may be able to wet it down and remove it with a putty knife where the crown would sit but chances are you won't want to fool with this too much, and just nail it up, caulk and forget about it.
My advice is to cut a few pieces longer than what the wall requires and use some of your cutoffs to play with and experiment cutting before you go at it. Get an angle guage and check all your corners before you cut your miters. They aren't 90 degrees very often, and if they are off by more than a degree or two, you'll get poor results cutting at 45. It also helps to have fairly straight walls, and level ceilings but the small crown is fairly forgiving as you can bend it to help out.
Check FHB issue # 152. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it will be extremely helpful to you.
Have fun.
For small crown you don't really need any backing. In any given room, all the walls have studs you can nail to, and 2 out of 4 have ceiling joists. You need to find all of those and nail to them. If the framing is on a regular layout it's easy. If the framing changes layout a lot, it's a nightmare. Install a few test pieces and see if they go up nice and tight nailed just to the existing framing.
Here is the detail I use for installing larger crown. I make backer blocks out of 2x scraps that 'complete' the triangular back of the crown. I attach those to the wall by screwing thru into the top plate with long screws. I mark their locations on the wall and then nail the crown to them. A helper can make the blocks and install them with minimal supervision, and then the crown goes up.
I'm only do 1 room (master bedroom), which is a decent sized room. I've got 3 long walls that have spans around 18' across. The other sections are much much smaller. There are 6 inside corners and 2 outside corners. All "45" degree angles.
As far as a saw, I have a $14 plastic miter box and saw from Home Depot that I got to put some 1/4 round down in my bathroom. Don't know if that would work for this room. I can borrow a compound miter saw from my wifes coworker as well. I wasn't planning on buying an expensive tool just to do crown in 1 room.
I don't want to mess with the popcorn ceiling, and I'm not painting the ceiling. I'm pretty sure the ceilings are untouched since being installed and havn't been painted more then once or twice since install, if at all since.
On 2 of the long walls is an area a few inches wide where the stud is protrouding out further then the rest of the wall. Otherwise, most of the walls seem to be fairly flat, and the ceiling looks pretty level.
My plan was to make all my cuts, paint the crown, and then nail it up. Then fill in the holes with some caulk or wood putty and touch up those holes. All my trim is painted white. I've actually caulked some painted door trim with this caulk and didnt go back and repaint because it blended enough to not stick out, so I could do the same with this crown if necessary.
My plan was to make all my cuts, paint the crown, and then nail it up. Then fill in the holes with some caulk or wood putty and touch up those holes.
I agree with everyone's advice from above. I would suggest priming and 1 coat paint on your crown before cutting. It has always worked very well for me to install as I cut so I can tweak and recut if necessary. Then you can make two more trips around filling holes then final painting. I feel the best results are derived from this method or similar.
Good luck.ADH Carpentry & Woodwork
Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
Making your cuts by hand is OK as long as the saw is sharp, but the chopsaw will be better if you are comfortable using it. They are dangerous tools even if you use one everyday, moreso if you never have.
When you say 45 deree angles I assume you mean that the corners are 90s and the cuts would be 45s... or do you mean that the corners are 45s and the cuts would be 22.5s? The latter are much harder to cope, for a beginner.
I would read up on coping (it has been written about at least a million times in the various magazines) and practice that before you start... make a few test cuts on short pieces and fit them to your actual corners. Make sure you have a little bit of extra material so you can keep going if you miscut anything.
Sorry, corners are all 90 degree with 45 degree cuts. I'll check out the book at HD when I go to buy materials.
one other thing to consider, depending on where you live, is to make sure you bring the crown indoors and allow it to reach "room temprature" for a few days. I only say this as I did a crown job for a buddy a few years ago.
he had his material stored inthe garage. Here in Minnesota it tends to be cold this time of year....and dry. as he was in such a hurry and rebuked my humble advice to pre prime the stock and at least bring it inside overnight, we (read I) went ahead and installed it. He called me later and asked why he was having small gaps appear at the scarf joints and a few outside corners. It wasn't bad, but could've been prevented."knowledge without experience is just information." Mark Twain
Sorry, corners are all 90 degree with 45 degree cuts
You need to cope all your inside corners. The book ought to tell you how to do this. Don't be tempted to miter inside corners. They'll open up in a week. I've had good luck glueing all my joints as well. Like the Tucson, I shall rise again from the ashes.
You won't go wrong getting the compound miter saw. It'll be a lot easier and you'll use it again, for sure.
It doesn't have to be the most expensive.
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$179.00 at Amazon but you can get one at HD comparable.
"There is no such thing as ex-wives"
You are much better off not buying your stock from home depot. I would get the crown at a good local supply house, preferably ones that mills it themselves. At home depot, you have no idea how long the stock has been there, where each piece came from (they may get the same profile from different mills, and they will be off just a bit but that matters), and price wise your not going to save anything hd is expensive for materials, and at a local trimwork supply house you will have a much better selection of profiles.
I've done a few jobs where the home owner supplied the material (HD trim) and it is a pain in the #### to get it looking good. Some of the casing and crowns are off by nearly 3/16 of an inch. Go local and save yourself a serious headache.
I'll try the local 84 lumber, they are close.
The this old house link was a good read. If I have read correctly I do the following:
-Outside corners are both regular 45 degree miters
-Inside corners are 1 but joint against the wall and 1 45 degree meter + coping
(note: 45 degree assumes perfect 90 degree corners, otherwise adjust the angle)
On the coping part, you highlight the edge with a pencil then cope out the back behind it, right? How much material should you cut away?
Can I get away with nailing just into the studs or must I also get some nails into a ceiling joist?
ESM,One resource that I found invaluable is Gary Katz's DVD, Mastering the Miter Saw part 1. It's a very thorough instructional on how to install crown molding with some very good time saving tips. I think it costs $20, and has some great tips for installing door and window casing. Good luckJim"I want a good clean fight. No head butts, no rabbit punches, and no hitting below the belt. Break when I say break, and protect yourself at all times."
Before you put up the crown, lay everything out. The crown is going to cover the wall to ceiling intersection, so use that area to find the studs and ceiling joists and/or strapping. I like to mark the studs before you start putting it up, it just saves time if everything isn't 16 o.c. Use a framing nail, or all, or ?? to find the studs and joists/strapping. Start at a corner, then go out 15" or so and tap the nail in to see if theres a stud, find it then move over 16 oc, etc. Same with the joists. Once everything is marked out, nailing is easier since you know where everything is. All the holes get cover by the crown. You can use a stud finder but I've never had an easy time with them, some of the newer ones might be better.
One other thing you may do, that is done around here alot, is to do a 2 piece crown. All that is is a piece of 5 1/4", or whatever you want, flipped upside down so the detail is on the bottom, then put your crown up. For 9' ceilings its a nice look.
Here's a link inside of fine homebuilding. It has a video clip too.
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/hvt034.asp
(they may get the same profile from different mills, and they will be off just a bit but that matters)
Isn't that just oh so much fun?
I spent a week one day fussing with supplied trim (bossman said to use it, f'r what 'e payed, it caint be wrong, 'n' I kin git sumun to hang i' iffen yuu caint . . . ). Wound up cutting a stick in half for each corner--that way it coped to itself. Then "cheated" the scarf joints as best could.
Was closer to sow's ear than silk purse, but it worked, after painting and that paycheck did not bounce . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
making a silk purse out of a sow's ear?
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00004.asp
To save a few $$'s, you can get most of the good trim books out at a local library. A few I think are good are below. Also, here is a link to a this old house article, it goes through it pretty well. http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/knowhow/_handbook/article/0,16417,1016651,00.html#
Finish Carpentry: Efficient Techniques for Custom Interiors
by Gary Katz
Trim Carpentry and Built-Ins: Expert Advice from Start to Finish (Build Like a Pro Series) by Clayton Dekorne
One more Ez trick.
Cut few extra pieces with the inside and outside miters. 1-1/2" to 2-1/2" long.
Use this pieces to find out the best fit and mark the spot. (wall and ceiling)
Start the nailing from the corners first (the same time) then the center and the then the rest. This technique requires 2 people and you must always try the next piece before you nail the last one.
2 3/4 seems pretty puny unless you've got low ceilings or your bedroom is in a New York apartment. I would go 4-5."
The 2 3/4 is the measurement across the face, not sure if that's the right one to use, but 4 or 5" would be HORRENDOUS. It's only 10' ceilings and it's a bedroom. W e put up the 2 3/4 and a 3 1/2'ish across piece the 3 1/2 looked so out of place.
10 foot ceiling? You definitely want a 5"+ crown if you actually want to see it.
Check this:
http://www.sfvictoriana.com/details/index_11.htm
Now that I start my arm up, they are 8 ft. The stuff from HD we sampled in the size we liked looks like 7-21/7-23 stock in style. Trust me, anything bigger looked really bad, especially when you considered the baseboard and the full visual picture. There might be normalcies for crown sizes, but if it looks bad visually, the normalcy doesn't mean anything to me. I've got to be able to look at it and not go "wow, that looks dumb!"
On an 8' ceiling, a 2 1/2" crown is fiine, although you might want to consider the next size up ( 3 1/2" ).
I've got the 2 1/2" in my living room, with an 8' ceiling.It does seem a little small, but its a big room, about 17' x 23'.
But its up, so I'm not likely to change it anytime soon.