FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter Instagram Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

installing duct work

| Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on February 25, 2007 03:12am

Hi:

I live in a converted (into condos) mill building in the Northeast. I’m freezing. We have heat pumps, part of the unit (the A/C?) lives on the building’s roof, and the rest of the mechanicals are on top of my bathroom. 3 ton unit, 1300 sq feet, 14 ft high ceilings. I want to run duct work and I can’t think of a reason why I can’t do it myself. It would be exposed, like you see in many commercial/retail spaces. Are there any complications I should watch for, and does anyone know of any resources that can guide me through.

Many thanks!

Reply

Replies

  1. DanH | Feb 25, 2007 03:33pm | #1

    The duct work will restrict airflow and may imbalance the heat pump. Heat pumps are a bit more sensitive to this than standard combustion furnaces.

    Hard to say how much of a factor it might be, though.

    So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
  2. danski0224 | Feb 25, 2007 05:13pm | #2

    A heat pump is nothing more than an air conditioner that works in reverse.

    I would suspect that the design conditions require some type of backup (emergency) heat, either from electric strips or gas/oil.

    Technically, as long as the temperature is above absolute zero, heat can be extracted from the outdoors and brought inside. Practically, heat pumps on r22 start to become inefficient around 20* F. Compounding your problem is 3 tons of heat pump is nowhere near enough to heat 1300 square feet with 14ft ceilings in snow country unless the space is impeccably insulated with top of the line windows and very limited exterior walls and roof exposure (three tons of heat pump will deliver *at best* slightly less than 36,000 btu's of heating at outdoor temperatures above 20*F).

    Three tons of cooling is probaly also marginal for the space.

    The volume of your space is the killer.

    For reference, your space is 18,200 cubic feet. Using a rule of thumb (not a load calculation) and assuming average construction for my location, you need 127,400 btu to heat that entire volume of space. Assuming good construction, that number changes to 109,200 btu. Given 9' ceilings and average construction, the number drops to 81,900 btu. All of these numbers are well over (more than 4x) the capacity of the equipment you described in your original post.

    Do you know the heat load or cooling load of the space? You can go to http://www.hvac-calc.com, pay a small fee for a single use license and find out yourself. The program will also do duct design- maybe not on the limited use license, though. 

    Did the original HVAC contractor or builder know what they were doing? Is the building still under any type of builders warranty?

    Adding ductwork will not fix your problem.

    A web search for "duct design" or "acca" will point you in the right direction. What you want is "Manual D, Residential Duct Design".

    That book will tell you how to do it right. Anything less is up to you :)



    Edited 2/25/2007 9:48 am ET by danski0224

  3. DanH | Feb 25, 2007 05:25pm | #3

    OTOH, it is possible that the unit you have was intended to be finished, with ductwork added, and this has simply not been done. At the very least, hot air should be delivered at floor level, not from the ceiling, and it's generally best that it be delivered along the outside walls vs the center. (In fact, if you can appropriately heat outside walls and other "outside" surfaces, you don't need any "interior" heat at all.)

    It certainly would be reasonable to investigate the addition of ductwork. Whether it's feasible to do and whether you can DIY are separate questions.

    What have other occupants done?

    So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
  4. ponytl | Feb 25, 2007 07:32pm | #4

    first... i'd look at your breaker panel.... if you have a 30amp breaker for "a/c" and another 30-40 amp breaker for "heat"  then it's a good guess you have heat strips in your air handler (the part above your bathroom).

    if you do..... and you should have the heat strips... you might want to make sure they are in fact heating up when called for...  you should have an access panel on your air handler that should face out (toward your access point to the unit) prob held on with 4 screws maybe a 12" x 16" metal panel...  behind this panel you will see the heat strips... much like the coils that glow red in a small space heater... you might have several... they are usually in sections of... 5kw, 7.5kw or 10kw and should be so marked...  look to see if they are glow'n when called for...  pretty common for the wires to burn off at the connection points... 

    if you got this far.... a few ideas... you can add strips to most units or increase the size (wattage) they are pretty cheap... you do have to figure load, wire size, and breaker size... what i have seen is where the original specs called for 10kw was followed... it was at 220v or 240v  and being an old mill building you might only have 208v which derates it... by up to 40%...

    I unlike what others have posted i think 3t of a/c in your area should be ok... you didn't say you were ever hot...

    as for exposed ductwork... yes it is that simple it's in conditioned space so it doesn't need to be insulated in open spaces you are just directing air into a general area... most mistakes are made in undersizing the return air... in your case I'd guess they only have one return duct with a filter vent... make sure it's large enough (think of you try'n to breath thru a cocktail straw)...

    good luck...

    p

    1. danski0224 | Feb 25, 2007 08:09pm | #5

      I unlike what others have posted i think 3t of a/c in your area should be ok... you didn't say you were ever hot...

      For conversation purposes, think of the 1300 square foot space with 14' ceilings as a "plain jane" two story home essentially at 2600 square feet.

      Using a rule of thumb, say 700 square foot per ton, the ac unit is too small. Note that "rule of thumb" and "load calculation" are not the same :).... You probably know that, though.

      This does not factor in roof heat gain loads if that applies (we do not know that), and a lack of cooling was not addressed. No ductwork to direct the air down doesn't help.

       

      1. ponytl | Feb 25, 2007 08:19pm | #6

        just my thinking....he's in the northeast....  not a huge ac load there... he's in a converted mill building... pretty good chance he's not an "end unit" and most conversions require hvac engineering... so i'm guess'n it was sized right... he didn't say anything about the cooling so again i'm assume'n it's a non issue...  and...with 14ft ceilings... would not that help the cooling?... we also don't know if he's ground floor, mid, or top floor...   since he's cold... I'm think'n he's on a lower floor...  but we don't know.... since the question was about be'n cold... I see no way they in that climate, they would have depended on the heat pump for 100% of the heat load... so i think it's a heat strip issue...

        just gave him some places to look...

        p

        1. User avater
          BillHartmann | Feb 25, 2007 09:18pm | #7

          " and...with 14ft ceilings... would not that help the cooling?."Depends on where the vents are.If they are located in the lower 1/2 then use.If you have returns at the top then you are cooling a lot of hot air that you aren't feeling.Also NE can be CT or Maine..
          .
          A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

      2. DanH | Feb 25, 2007 09:40pm | #8

        However, you're also not factoring in that this is (presumably) a multiunit structure. There generally is little heat gain/loss through common walls/floors/ceilings.
        So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

        1. danski0224 | Feb 26, 2007 05:26am | #9

          That's correct. My input on the subject is worth the price paid :)

          That's why I provided the link to a reasonably inexpensive and accurate program that I am happy with.

          Once the actual heat loss and gains have been figured, then the path to a solution is more clear- provided there aren't other issues with any backup heat if it exists.

          No prior history with the home and HVAC has been given. Obviously, if it worked last winter, then there is a problem somewhere.

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Behind the Scenes of a Concrete Batch Plant

The batch plant is your partner in getting high-quality concrete on your job site.

Featured Video

Builder’s Advocate: An Interview With Viewrail

Learn more about affordable, modern floating stairs, from design to manufacturing to installation.

Related Stories

  • Podcast 549: Energy Upgrades, Chimney Inspections, and Questions About a Home You Might Buy
  • Podcast 549: Members-only Aftershow—Patios vs. Decks
  • Podcast 548: PRO TALK With Design/Build Operations Manager Jessica Bishop-Smyser
  • Strategies for Venting a Roof Valley

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

BOOKS, DVDs, & MERCH

Shop the Store
  • Pretty Good House
    Buy Now
  • 2023 Tool Guide
    Buy Now
  • 2022 Fine Homebuilding Archive
    Buy Now
  • Code Check Building 4th Edition
    Buy Now
  • Shop the Store

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 314 - April/May 2023
    • 7 Options for Countertops
    • Tool Test: Wood-Boring Bits
    • Critical Details for Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 313 - Feb/March 2023
    • Practical System for a Seismic Retrofit
    • Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights
    • Practical System for a Seismic Retrofit
  • Issue 312 - Dec 2022/Jan 2023
    • Tool Test: Cordless Tablesaws
    • Gray-Water System for a Sustainable Home
    • Insulate a Cape Roof to Avoid Ice Dams
  • Issue 311 - November 2022
    • 7 Steps to a Perfect Exterior Paint Job
    • Options for Smarter Home-Energy Tracking
    • The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer
  • Issue 310 - October 2022
    • Choosing a Tile-Leveling System
    • Choosing Between HRVs and ERVs
    • Custom Built-in Cabinets Made Easy

Fine Homebuilding

Follow

  • twitter
  • facebook
  • instagram
  • pinterest

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences

Taunton Network

  • Green Building Advisor
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Fine Gardening
  • Threads
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Copyright
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved.

X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Shop the Store

  • Books
  • DVDs
  • Taunton Workshops

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • twitter
  • facebook
  • instagram
  • pinterest

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in