Hey Everyone,
Lookin for some guidance on laminate flooring.
Got a job to fix a laminate floor installation a sub did poorly. The bulk of the floor is down. The big problem is around the door jams and casings. Is there a way to get the old/new floor up without tearing it all up and reinstalling new floor? Its a pergo type laminate. I am stuck on how to get the plank under the jams and casings. The floor lays parralel to some openings (Which present the problem) and perpendicular to others. (Which are fairly straightforward. I have reviewed FH back issues and JLC back issues and searched BT without luck.
Does anyone have a reference I can look up to guide me through this process? I have noticed several errors in the previous guys install but I think I can fix them. (I.E. ending a plank with only a 3/4 inch piece. It won’t lay down nicely)
Thanks in advance for any help.
KD6
Replies
"I am stuck on how to get the plank under the jams and casings."
You don't want it under the jamb. Just fit close to, or a threshold transition. It needs expansion gaps around the room, normally covered with shoe, and casings and base installed after the flooring
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I've not had the opportunity to put one it yet, but I would think that i would want it under the jamb.It can still expand and contract under there, as opposed to leaving a space next to the jamb.Glenn
"You don't want it under the jamb."
sure you do.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
So what holds the door up if the jamb is floating?
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Possibly a good point but here we cut the jambs and slide the flooring under. I would hope the door jamb is securely attached to the framming.
You make an interesting point tho, maybe next time I replace a few of those hinge screws with a few 3" into the trimmer.
I admit to not having done but a couple of these and we rarely run through doorways. The houses here mostly have a raised thresh at each door.But I know that the engineered flooring is not supposed to be captured at all - not under cabinets and not under doors. It is supposed to be allowed free full movement to avoid buckling. I can see undercutting a jamb to slid e it in, but then if there is a snap joint right there, how does one accomplish that?You have to angle lift the piece to snap it to the previous. The only way I can see is to install the door after the flooring. I just cut close.
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Actually on the last job I did just that, cut close. The flooring changes directions through the doorways and I used a transition strip. I just relieved the casing so I didn't have to cope the profile.
I agree with you and thinking back on when I did cut the jambs I'm wondering if that was such a good idea now. I'll have to check out the doors when ever they call me back, if they do.
Thanks everyone,
Jagwah and Piffin are on the same freq as me. I just can't see any way to get the angle required to get it under the casing so I will have to cut it awful close. With 1/4 round it is no problem but at the casing its gotta be precise. I can do that. (Thank goodness for the "Zippy Tool") But I do agree that it would be easier to just say no. But I can't. I am the "Closer". So there is nobody else. If I have to pull the whole thing, which I don't want to do I will. But I gotta exhaust all other options first. Guess I'll try for extreme accuracy and caulk.
Thank you all for your input. I'll let you know what happened in a day or two. After I am mission complete.
KD6
If the casings are painted you can cut a scarf joint in the casing about 4" above the floor. Then cut the floors to fit close to the jamb. Pop the flooring in and replace the small bit of casing. Little caulk and paint and you'll never see it.Perfect job for a multimaster but any thin kerf saw will do.
TFB (Bill)
Not sure why there's much discussion about the "right" way to take laminate floor through doorways...Of course you cut the jamb. Same as the casing.The difference between a hack job and a pro job are in the details at the edges. Yea, you get some crazy jigsaw-cut pcs. to have to cover all your bases and not have any gaps, but it's very satisfying to get it done and have it look like it was built that way.I do a lot of laminate floor jobs and I can do pretty well on them, money wise. if need be, you can sometimes shave a hair off the tongue edge to allow it to "click" together without all the manhandling, but usually you can show it who's boss and beat it into submission.I found an old Elu bisuit jointer and because it's the only one I've ever found that allows for height adjustment level to the blade - I use it for cutting jambs and casing. Hook a vacuum up to it and do it dust free.Like a mini Crain jamb saw.Doing a whole-house laminate job in a week or so - been using the flooring at Costco and Sam's club - nice quality stuff - made in Canada last I checked.The Costco stuff has 12-13 unique patterns, the Sam's club usually has about 7-8. That helps to make your layout less obvious.JT
Are the transitions any good - color match and installation wise?TFB (Bill)
Did you notice where the instructions on the Costco stuff says you must have 50% humidity? My neighbor is installing some at this moment. I dont see where it going to expand like natural wood because it is a press board/plastic. Heck,I stuck it inna bucket of water to see if it would dissolve.Looks like I'll be installing some in the cabin. Dont know why the wife doesnt like the way shiny concrete contrasts with the oriental rugs.
Oh yeah it expands. I have seen a few buckle where the installer didn't leave enough space at the wall. They had to go back and pull the base trim and cut it back.We had a factory rep come out to one of those jobs. He went around with a putty knife--if there was one spot where he couldn't fit it under the base...warranty void. He pulled a string. If there was any place with more than 1/8" out of flat in ten feet..warranty void. Any joints within 12" of another joint on an adjoining run..warranty void. Maybe your slabs are within 1/8" of flat in 10 feet, but that just isn't a real world standard IMO.
I've got some of the cheap stuff like atrident was talking about from a BB and had the same results with no to minimal expansion when soaked in water, left out side etc. In fact hardly a defect noticed. However.... the vacation condo that we've used to the last 6 years had some type of similar flooring installed (don't know any of the particulars on it) and it looks like #### now. Maybe there was a water leak, maybe it was form the cleaning service flood mopping it after every lease, I dunno, but it does prove that not all are made the same.
Personally, I wouldn't put the stuff in my own house (I've put it in for other people). If for some reason I wanted a floating floor, I'd go with the click together engineered hardwood.
Thermal expansion - not just humidity is the concern here.
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I've always heard that (thermal expanison)(and I know all abot it from my aviation career) but what's the greatest temp swing inside a house? Here it's either cold & damp or hot humid or dusty from the pollen. Not too many folks I know here have the windows open for any length of time so the HVAC is running nearly 12 months a year. So how much expansion across the room are you going to see at a (guesstimate of the max) 15F temp swing?
Ah-hah! See I work on a lot of places that get shut down in winter and don't have air conditioning, so I am dealing with swings from probably zero to eighty.
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and my guess is that you're installing floors in temps closer to 80 than 0. no? Then it would be more of a contraction issue than expansion.
One of them was probably hotter than 80 when it went down.Another was barely fifty
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The floor of which I spoke that buckled, the issue was humidity. It was on a slab with radiant heat, so it was probably at its warmest in the winter. It buckled in the summer during humid weather.Not that temp can't be a factor. I was in charge of maintenance in a camp that had multiple buildings that were allowed to freeze. They had vinyl floors in the baths, and I got pretty good at installing that metal seam tape over the blown vinyl seams.
Wondering how you deal with this situation: you need an expansion gap, but if you are using colonial casing, right where the door casing comes down, you have to bring the laminate pretty much within an 1/8" of the wall to avoid a gap in the flooring. Seems like a catch-22.Also, say you have laminate all on one floor with several bedrooms. Do you run it all as one floor, or do you put T moldings at each door?
Good spot for a plinth block if it fits the styling.
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It would be indeed.TFB (Bill)
Once you snap it down you can usually tap it sideways to get it where you need it, and the mating tongue or groove can be modified and glued to accomplish this.Last engineered floor I put down a couple months ago, Kahrs product. I actually was able to lay it in any direction when need be, which helped in my strategy through doors, into rooms, around various obstacles, etc.. I enjoy the strategy challenge and really enjoyed laying that particular flooring.
Edited 7/13/2008 10:12 pm by kenhill3
>but then if there is a snap joint right there, how does one accomplish that?<
I've had decent luck with using a sacrificial piece snapped into the open side and beating with a BFH (hammer) on a smash block to get the joint to snap together without having to do the lifting & snapping. You need about 3 or more people to stand on the floor already laid so it doesn't go floating all over the place and you lose your gaps on the opposite wall. Not pretty but effective. I've been trying to not take the jobs for pergo style flooring lately.
What do those raised thresholds at each door look like? Do you do that even if the flooring in both rooms is the same?
I just had floating glue-together bamboo installed in most rooms of a new house. They did that before we hung any interior doors, and they left a 3/8" gap around the entire perimeter of the floor, including thru the doorways. The door jambs sit on the flooring but I highly doubt they prevent lateral movement if the floor wants to expand or contract.
One thing that came up--I ended up asking the painters NOT to caulk the baseboard to the floor. Seems to me that if the floor moves at all it will just take the caulk with it and look like hell. Then what, we go back and try to remove all the caulk?? Didn't sem worth the risk to me.
View Image
What I've used finishes out looking like this. I used this in the doorways when the flooring from one room to the other were going different directions.
They look right an natural to me, but it is how I have been seeing things for twenty years here now.I would not have a problem with running the flooring and setting the jamb on top of it, but if I recall - this thread has the OP with the door jamb already in place and he's wondering how to slide the flooring in under it. That is how I answered.
I agree with you on the caulking to floor. Our painters caulk baser to wall but not to floor. same for real wood floors.
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Are you doing any of the laminate flooring that looks like ceramic tile?I had thought about doing that in my living room and was just wondering if you have ever used it in a large room and how it lookedThanks!
I believe some of the Pergo stuff has a wax-like glue on the tongue and groove. I was told by someone in the flooring dept at a box store (so, not necessarily an expert) that when you snap the pieces together - the wax-like glue is activated and holds the pieces together.
So, just a word of caution, that it is possible it won't unsnap. Also, those T&G are very fragile - in my opinion. I'd be a bit worried about unsnapping them and snapping them again.
I've repaired some of the tile looking laminate, in that I pulled up a bit and finished what someone else started. I wasn't to impressed with the material but the client had bought the cheapest stuff you could get. I just couldn't get joints tight enough and I was a bit to rough with it, broke a few pieces.
My partner has done a bit more and says it's nice stuff. I'll ask him tomarrow about it and try to get back.
I've done the Wilsonart tile-like, and it goes together very well. It is expensive. Caution- plan carefully and double check your fits- to remove a piece you have to destroy it.
Edited 7/17/2008 10:46 am by kenhill3
"Are you doing any of the laminate flooring that looks like ceramic tile? I had thought about doing that in my living room and was just wondering if you have ever used it in a large room and how it looked"My brother put "tile" laminate in his kitchen. The stuff he used had glued joints so it was fairly water resistant. After three years the floor itself is OK but the joints between the boards (not the fake grout lines) IMO look like ####. Part of the problem is the color (light grey) and the rest is probably because a kitchen floor gets cleaned more often than a typical wood-grain Pergo floor. Anyway, in three years it went from looking almost like a real tile floor, to looking like a fake tile floor.
I appreciate your info Thanks!
"So what holds the door up if the jamb is floating?"
uh .... nails?
and sometimes a screw or two.
what .... U rely on the floor to keep your doors in place?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Holy Cr@p. In spite of his 50K+ posts to BT, there is actually something that I've done more than Piffin... laminate flooring. Sadly, it's a very hollow victory, because as we all know, laminate is CR@PP!!!....BTW, I put the flooring under the jamb. (A biscuit joiner makes a half-decent jamb saw.)Scott.
Edited 7/14/2008 12:40 am by Scott
we take life's victories as we get them ... no matter how small!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Makes for a helluva facelift for a room though.Beats the heck out of vinyl - no question about that.JT
Typically you saw the casings ever so slightly higher than the finish floor. This way the flooring slips under the casing and jamb unless like Piffin says you can install the trim after your done. Sounds like that is not an option.
Frankly I wouldn't do this job. The minute you start you'll own all the mistakes and anything you can't fix are your problem. This owner will not tell others how it was the first guy didn't no come hear from sick-em. They won't say thank goodness we found this other guy who did a great job fixing most of the others screw ups.
What they will say is how they had a couple of ya-hoos mess up their floor.
Sometimes when I'm faced with a situation like this I don't say no to the client, I let them say no. I tell them the floors are wrong and it's likely most, if not all the flooring will have to come up and started over. I tell them in this situation my charges are cost plus 15% but when I'm done I'll warranty my work and there will be nothing wrong.
It's a win win. If they say no great because the job would have been a headache. If they say yes great at lest I'll get paid for my headache.
Goodluck
Edited 7/13/2008 7:26 pm by jagwah