Well, it’s not really about plumbing a new shut-off valve, it’s about how to install the wallboard around it in 1 piece after the new valve is installed.
Pulled the old toilet and repaired some rotted flooring underneath. About to lay in some new tile and then re-install the toilet. But, while I’m there doing all this work and installing a new fixture and new tile I figure I may as well install a new shut-off valve under the tank. The old wallboard under and behind the tank had also suffered water damage and had gone soft with mold growing on it – I removed a piece up to about the level of the toilet tank.
The old valve works fine, it’s just that its chrome finish is pitted and discolored with age. Like the old valve, the new valve is an angle valve with a 5″ extension tube and has a bell flange to cover the hole in the wallboard.
The old valve was installed from a “T” in a line that also runs to an upstairs toilet directly above. The water supply was, of course, installed in a wall on which wallboard was installed on both sides. The original wallboard was one large piece with just a small hole cut for the pipe coming out from inside the wall.
I assume that the soldering was done before the wallboard was installed on the opposite side of the wall – which I can no longer do (kitchen cabinet installed on the other side of the wall prevent access to the plumbing connection in the wall).
So, what’s the secret? How do I do this without installing the wallboard in 2 pieces? Or, must I install it in 2 pieces? As far as I can tell, the chromed extension tube doesn’t disconnect from the angle valve.
Anyone have an answer? Thanks in advance.
Replies
You stub out the pipe, put up the WB, and attach the angle stop after the wallboard is up.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
Edited 7/18/2009 5:04 pm ET by MikeHennessy
Thanks for the reply.
If I understand you correctly, you're talking about a 2 step process. (1) Stub out using a chromed extension tube through the wallboard and (2) soldering on an angle valve.
Yes?
If so, I'll have to get other parts. The angle valve & extension tube I bought is all one piece.Griff
Yes -- the stub is one piece and the angle stop is another. If you want a chrome stub, you'll probably have to go with one that's threaded on both ends instead of soldered, which may mean converting the tee to threaded as well. But they do make chrome tubing to cover copper stubs -- you could do that instead, but that may be tough to find.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Thanks. I'm going to go with the integral, factory manufactured valve and chromed tube that's soldered onto the 1/2" copper supply tube.Griff
I have never seen one that sticks out enough that it needs any kind of sleeve.I have paint around a number of them. And even down on the floor next to one you don't see much. maybe 1/2-3/4" between the trim plate and back of the compression nut.Around this area compression fit is almost all you see on any house with copper pipe..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Well, the stub-out here sticks out at least 1" from the wallboard - more actually, since after 1" it then slips into the chromed tube for an unknown distance. The bell flange covers this short piece of copper tubing.
I'll learn exactly how far once I unsolder the connection and slip the tube and old valve off.
Right now I'm waiting for people to leave the house so I can shut off the water supply and drain the pipes - no, there is no shut-off valve installed on this supply line. Pity.Griff
Around this area compression fit is almost all you see on any house with copper pipe.
One of the many reasons I curse plumbers as a group... they seem to NEVER consider the consequences of using compression to 1/2" pipe.
I REFUSE to use compression on the pipe stub-out. Soldered 1/2npt male fitting to mount the valve is the only sure-fire way to allow future replacement of the valve.
My last fight with a compression fitting replacement was a nightmare and I'll never knowingly subject the next person in line to the same horrid affair.A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
........One of the many reasons I curse plumbers as a group... they seem to NEVER consider the consequences of using compression to 1/2" pipe......
What consequences are we talking about?
"If all else fails, read the directions"
"What consequences are we talking about?"
If tightened too much, a compression fitting deforms the pipe enough that it's tough to replace the fitting -- especially if the copper is soft or type M. I've had to resort to soldering on the replacement valve's compression ring on more than one occasion 'cause the pipe was "squeezed" too much to seal.
Still, no big deal - but I prefer to avoid 'em myself. Just a personal preference thing.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
I still think the old threaded drop-eared elbows were the way to go. Not using them saves what? Maybe $5 in parts. And then you have to futz with sleeves on the copper, compression fittings, etc.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Up until about three years ago, I'dve agreed 100%. Then I discovered PEX and will never look back. Now I almost always just use a 90° copper stub off the PEX . ;-)Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
The Pex is sort of OK if it's soldered through a plate. But too often they're just left dangling -- floppy valve that doesn't sit straight.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
That's why I use the copper ell stubs -- I attach both legs to the stud so it's nice and stiff -- that, or solder through a plate where I can't hit a stud.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
The copper ells I see on Pex all the time don't have legs. And maybe one time in five you see them soldered to a plate (and even then often just tack-soldered). Most often they just dangle loose.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
I use Wirsbo stuff and if I need to use a drop ear (like for a shower), I use the ones with three screw ears, like so:
View Image
But, for angle stops like at a terlet or under a sink, I use these, and strap both the horizontal and vertical legs to the stud:
View Image
Only reason is, I'm lame at getting threaded nipples watertight behind the wall. I've left a slow drip one time too many. ;-(
And it makes it easy to run the pressure test as a bonus.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
PS: I'm with ya on hating dangly stub-outs.
Edited 7/22/2009 1:17 pm ET by MikeHennessy
Bill: Some old time information for you, used to be that chrome nipples were used on fixture hook-up $$$, then compresion became common with a chrome sleeve$$, then the idea was to eliminate the chrome sleeve and cut the stub out tight to the escutcheon$, the basic idea was to speed up and save money, have a good one.
"If all else fails, read the directions"
It depends. If this is an old-type gate valve with an oval-shaped plastic handle, remove the handle. (The extension tube should be removable.) Then use a 1½" hole saw to cut a hole in the gyprock at the appropriate place. The valve body will just fit thru the 1½" hole, and a split escutcheon plate will cover the hole perfectly.
If it's a mini ball valve, just turn off the main water supply then turn on the ball valve. That way the handle will point along the axis of the valve body and again, it will fit thru a 1½" hole.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Edited 7/18/2009 5:43 pm ET by Dinosaur
As I indicated in my reply to the post above, my angle valve and extension tube are all one piece - they were joined at the factory.
I'll have to get other parts.
But, thanks for the reply.Griff
You shouldn't have any trouble getting a cutoff valve, unless you're coming off galvanised pipes in which case you'll need an adapter and/or a nipple, too. If you're on ½" rigid copper, get ½ x ⅜ mini ball valves with compression fittings. You can attach those with a pair of Crescent wrenches and some Teflon¯ tape. No sweat.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Teflon tape for compression fittings?BruceT
Teflon tape for compression fittings?
Yep, put a wrap on the threaded part of the valve body for the compression nut.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
What does that do? The seal is made by the ferrule being squeezed between valve body and pipe. BruceT
Lubricates the threads and helps avoid corrosion freezing them over time. Especially on toilet hookups; even brass can't take little boys' overspray without getting furry eventually....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Ah. Now I understand.Maybe that's why in Germany there are signs in restrooms that say, "Bitte, im sitzen pinkeln."BruceT
Used to have a carp who worked for me occasionally; his Belgian mother never taught him to piss standing up, said something about des maudit hommes qui arrose tout! He still sits down to take a leak.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
As the preacher said, "Let us spray.":)BruceT
OK thanks.Griff
I cannot imagine that there would be a valve with integrated 5" stub-out sweated inside the wall. That is basically a non-repairable valve.
Look again at your valve and stub out. Is the stub-out soldered to a 1/2" copper pipe tee inside the wall? If so, look for a hexagonal nut on the valve where it joins the stub out. If you loosen that nut, the valve should come off easily. (If you loosen the nut without first turning off the water, it will fly off and drown you.)
If the chrome stub-out actually was soldered to the angle stop, how much pipe is there outside the drywall? If it extends more than 1 1/2" inch, you could cut off the valve and install a 1/2" compression angle stop.
Ah, you're right. I looked a bit closer - it's amazing what you can learn when you actually look at things - and actually moved the bell housing from where it was stuck. It was hiding the connection between the chromed tubing and the 1/2" copper stub.
That joint is outside of the wallboard! I had originally thought the chromed tube went essentially all the way towards the "T" fitting inside the supply pipe in the wall.
So, once I remove the soldered old chromed tube & valve I can install the wallboard in one piece with only a hole cut out for the stub-out.
I should then be able to solder on the new chromed extension tube (trimmed to fit) and its integral angle valve.
Thanks for pointing me in the direction I needed to look to understand how this works. Griff
You have found your answer already for your particular valve.
Just so you know, there are valves which have an integrated chrome pipe stub. Made by Brasscraft. Straight or 90*, gate valve type or 1/4 turn ball styles are all available. I thought this is what you had until I read the rest of the posts.
Valve has a chrome tube attached to the valve at the factory. The ID of the tube matches OD of 1/2" copper pipe. You cut the factory tube to whatever length you need, clean and flux, slip over the cu pipe stub and solder in place. All from the exposed side of the DW.
Removal is a simple "unsoldering" from the exposed side of the DW.
Jim
Got it. Thanks.
Now I just have to wait for people to leave the house so I can turn the water supply off.Griff