Installing shelf on solid plaster wall
dlepp
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I am looking for ideas as to the best method of installing plugs for shelves in solid plaster walls. The plaster seems very soft (old NYC building) and I’ve noticed that most shelves that have been installed using lead shields or plastic plugs are loose. The shelves I plan to install need to support books and a computer printer.
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Replies
If the walls are plaster over wood or metal framing, then use toggle bolts.
If the plaster is applied to brick or concrete, use the lead anchors, but put them all the way into the masonry.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
The walls are solid plaster; mostly brown coat applied to a wire mesh grid. There are no studs and no voids. Also the plaster seems very soft. I was thinking about using a pl premium type adhiesive to install long lead shields as well as the shelf bracket itself to the plaster but I am looking for any feedback and any other ways to overcome this problem. This type of wall construction is very common here in NYC.Thanks.
So whats behind the wire mesh? The other side of the wall with more plaster?
If so, that would be entirely new to me, so I might not be of much help.
If not, then there is either masonry (brick, block, or concrete) or there is steel, or there is wood.
Use that structure.
And note that PL Premium won't hold a bookshelf to plaster -- not even when it is used to "hold" anchors which hold screws which hold brackets. Neither will any other adhesive that I know of.
Surely there is some sort of structure to this wall. And you need your shelves to be fastened to that structure.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
is it possible you have plaster over gypsum block?
other parts of the country just don't know much about gypsum block, but we in NYC have seen it many times....
It is possible that there are plaster blocks behind the surface, but they are not as dense as concrete or cinder block. I have been into the wall up to six inches with a massonary bit and there does not seem to any change in density or in the type of material coming out of the holes.
As it is the walls will not hold lead plugs 2 1/2" long without coming loose. I was hoping someone had come up against this before. I am new to NYC but am told that solid plaster walls are very common in older buidings here.
Sounds like you've answered your own question. Either use free-standing shelves or fur out the wall with studs (sheath them per your design). Maybe more work than you want, but a lot better than going through the effort of a) putting up the shelves, b) watching your work/books/computer printer come crashing down, c) repairing the damage (to walls, floor, etc.), and d) doing what should have been done prior to step 'a.'
Edited 10/12/2005 6:59 pm ET by draftguy
Dlepp,I have seen solid plaster walls in Denver, but they were only 2" thick, and solid enough to take a Tapcon. 1940's vintage, with wire lath at the center core. How thick are yours? If 6" plus, I concur with the poster who opined that there are plaster blocks behind the surface. Never seen those.If it were my place, I'd experiment to find a solution. If I were renting, I'd build freestanding shelves designed to knock down for the inevitable move to new digs. Look up the classic book, "Nomadic Furniture" by Hennessey and Papanek.Soft crumbly masonry in general can be a heartbreaker to fasten to. Save your heart.Bill
Ditto what YesMaam said. Find the actual structure of the wall and use that. In general, you want your fastner to penetrate an inch into the structure. Figure that the plaster is about an inch, and lets say your shelf standard is 1/2". Then you want fastners that are at least 2 1/2".
I put a bunch of Ikea shelves up, some on exterior walls with brick and some on interior walls with studs. On the exterior walls I used a hammer drill, then inserted plastic anchors with masonary screws rated at what I thought would be appropriate. On the interior walls, I found all the studs, ran the shelf standards with screws (again as strong as I could find locally) in every screw hole. I lost a few screws to either tear out or being sheared off, but each 6' of standard as about 6 screws in it.
So far, so good.
If the wall is really nuttin but plaster, how bout:
Drill all the way thru the wall, run threaded rod thru the wall and terminate in a washer and lock nut on both sides. Hang your shelves from the threaded rods.
Yes, this sounds real ugly, but it might work.
If you really have to have those shelves hanging there you might try multiple 6 to 8 inch screws placed at a 45degree angle down depending on what you plan on putting on the shelves.
You could probably climb them.
40,000 Americans are injured by toilets each year.
Okay, after talking to a contractor at length who works in the area it would seem that there are gypsum blocks behind the plaster. These blocks are mostly solid with the odd cavity but the cavities are usually too small for a toggle to fully open. If by chance I am lucky enough to hit a cavity then he suggested cutting the wings to allow them to open. The plaster and the gypsum blocks are too soft to support short plugs so the longer the plug the better. As well drilling through the wall and installing threaded rod as Norman suggested is also workable; at least for the ones that back onto a closet wall. I think that I will try long anchors with a few in at 45 degrees to see how they hold up.To all who contributed, its always nice to hear the ideas of others.
Thanks very much for taking the time to share yours.Dan
How about one more "ugly" suggestion... drill a large hole to match the diameter of a dowel (at least 1") and epoxy the dowel in the hole. If you drill a pilot hole in the dowel, I think this would be pretty secure. Recess the dowel 1/8" and you can spackle over it.
If it were me, I would probably attach a board to the studs and then attach the shelves to the board.
-Don