Replies

1. 
   McDesign | Dec 03, 2007 04:24am | #1

   I've only used PolySteel, and just for two stem walls, but I've been to their school and some sites in progress, and they seem well thought-out; the whole process.

   Forrest

1. 
   Smitty1 | Dec 03, 2007 04:45am | #2

   Thank you, Forrest.  I will check them out online.

2. 
   xxPaulCPxx | Dec 03, 2007 10:43pm | #8

   I'm thinking about building a second story on steel piers, not connected directly to the first story.  Out of curiosity, can you use ICF on a second story?  How does the bracing work in that case - is it a super complicated PITA?

   Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA

   Also a CRX fanatic!

   If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts.  You nut, you.

   Edited 12/3/2007 2:45 pm by xxPaulCPxx

1. 
   McDesign | Dec 03, 2007 10:56pm | #9

   Hmmmm.  Got no idea on that one.  It would seem difficult to support the weight economically.

   Forrest

2. 
   Piffin | Dec 04, 2007 12:51am | #11

   Anything is possible if you have the money.But the engineering would be a nightmare, especially in CA. Better to be looking at SIPs. Much less weight for the same insulative value roughly 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   Smitty1 | Dec 08, 2007 05:00pm | #17

   Piffin,

    

   Thanks for your reply.

   I had planned to use sips for the rest of the house.

    

   Smitty1

3. 
   frenchy | Dec 04, 2007 01:02am | #12

   Paul,

     Massive problems with that sort of design, ICF's need to be well braced and then you need to be above them to pour the cement in.  We're speaking about some giant numbers spent on bracing and wlakways.  

     It would be a whole lot easier with SIP's   

1. 
   tuolumne7 | Dec 04, 2007 01:08am | #13

   I just did our current home with ICF.  I chose Polysteel as with my previous home.  I had some of my I-joists for the floor delivered early.  These were screwed to the wall about 12-24" from the top (sloped for drainage).  I used 2x4s running back down to the footing for vertical support.  Corners were braced each way (back on themselves) at the bottom two courses with 8 foot 2x4s.  All lumber was reused later in the project.  I'll try to post pictures if there is any interest.

1. 
   brownbagg | Dec 04, 2007 03:28am | #14

   if you go back and look at the picture i post, you will see that its three floors.

2. 
   frenchy | Dec 04, 2007 03:38am | #15

   Tuolumne7

     MY most recent version was a 1/2 round  of the portico foundation. It needed to be exactly 9&1/2 feet radius.  What I did was slice each block into 1/3 at a 7&1/2 degree angle on my table saw.  That provided my 9&1/2 foot radius.  Now that should be scary enough.. However I also wanted to do this all in one pour, footings and everything! so I made my forms for the footings using the same 7 1/2 degree cuts and then put tie braces across the forms and started putting the ICF forms down..  I put a cap board on the outside and one on the inside which not only located the ICF forms on top of the footing forms but also capped the footing forms.. I put the first layer of forms in place and back filled a little first carefully put in the rebar and formed the seams and then put the second row in and back filled that, rebar and seams etc..

     On the inside I cut two 1x6 white oak planks at a 7 1/2 degree angle and using Kreg screws* and glue joined them together.   That formed the inside joint when I screwed them into the seams on the ICF's   I went ahead and finished the whole wall and stood up the white oak timberframes 6"x18" x 8 foot white oak timbers which formed the doorway.

    at the top I set stainless steel lag bolts into the pockets where the concrete would be and used Tamarack 2x12's 12" on center for my deck joists.  I had no bracing on the inside and dirt back fill on the outside.   the pour went flawless. I not only poured the footings the wall and floor all at once but also had enough time to go out and put some concrete footings in the driveway retaining wall.

     I was so proud I'd calculated it down to the last drop of cement and when we reached the end of the retaining wall we were out of cement.  It took exactly the time alloted and there wasn't ever a single bit of panic..

     *pocket screws

3. 
   Smitty1 | Dec 08, 2007 05:06pm | #20

   Frenchy,

    

   Your project sounds interesting...wish you had taken a picture for us to see!!

    

   Smitty1

4. 
   Smitty1 | Dec 08, 2007 05:03pm | #19

   Frenchy,

    

   I would be most interested in your pictures if you post them.

    

   Smitty1

5. 
   frenchy | Dec 08, 2007 06:17pm | #22

   Smitty1

    there are pictures posted here, however you have to go over to the right hand side and go into advanced search scroll down and enter in 34543.3, 94941.1, 85891.1

     Some clever sole is smart enough to know how to do this easier but I'm darn near computer illiterite.

6. 
   Piffin | Dec 08, 2007 07:52pm | #23

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=94941.1http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=85891.1That first one you gave 345.... is an error 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

7. 
   Matt | Dec 08, 2007 05:10pm | #21

   I'd like to see the pics.  It's a little hard to picture from your description.

8. 
   Jim_Allen | Dec 08, 2007 08:39pm | #24

   Your approach is one that I'd use. I'd love to see the pics. I like the idea of a continuous, full length member such as an I joist. There would be some challenges but the basic idea makes a lot of sense.My approach would be to use the I joist as the top plate. To suspend it, I'd create the basic framework that my scaffold would use. I've looked at the icf bracing systems and they don't make sense to a carpenter who has worked a lifetime with wood braces and scaffolds. Back in MI, we were contemplating getting into the ICF basement market as an entry into the shell package. Our plan was to pre-frame the first floor walls (we always panelize them anyways) and use them as the forms and bracing for the flimsy ICF system. I have no doubt that it would have been fast and effective. Of course, that idea wouldn't be available if all the walls were ICFs.I wouldn't hesitate to use the trusses as our top plate/brace. It would act like a waler does in standard concrete form construction and be very easy to support, alight and temp brace. That would necessitate that the trusses be dropped before the foundation wall construction begins, but that is not a deal breaker. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

2. 
   Smitty1 | Dec 08, 2007 05:01pm | #18

   Paul,

    

   Thanks for your reply.

    

   I had planned to use sips for the above ground walls.

    

   Smitty1

2. 
   brownbagg | Dec 03, 2007 05:50am | #3

   we using "Rewards" and they seems to be ok.

1. 
   Hiker | Dec 03, 2007 02:33pm | #5

   Did you use that guy out of Marble Falls?  I met him at a trade show-seemed like reasonable folks.  If so, how was your experience with them? Did they do the work or just sell the ICF's?

   THanks

   Bruce

   Edited 12/3/2007 6:34 am by Hiker

3. 
   mguizzo | Dec 03, 2007 07:01am | #4

   Two friends of mine just put in their crawl spaced homes using Arxx and they both say that it was fast, easy and accurate. 

   I have had recommendations from a contractor friend of mine to use the quadlock system.  Check out quadlocks at their website http://www.quadlock.com .  Under their gallery menu you can find a good video presentation showing how they are installed.  good luck. 

4. 
   billd60 | Dec 03, 2007 06:35pm | #6

   I'm essentially a DIYer and did my own foundation for a 3600 sq. ft home and a 3-car garage a couple years ago with ARXX.  My brother and I set the forms, tied the bar and secured the forms as recommended in less than three days.  We did have one spot where a "blow-out" nearly occurred because we ran out of rented bracing for a "T" in a wall.   would do it again and again.  Carefully plan your above-ground treatment; the parge coat seems to be adequate but my plans was to do a cultured stone band on the brick ledge also available from ARXX.  When "we" changes our mind frm the stone veneer, it left me with a quandry as to how to treat the exposed forms above ground level.  I believe it is amazing stuff; but you must be extremely careful with bracing and plumbing walls before and during the pump.

5. 
   frenchy | Dec 03, 2007 08:53pm | #7

   Smitty1

     congradulations! ICF's are a great way to build..  the forms you should use depend more on where you are than which is the best brand.. I say that because in some locations the ICF salesmen are a great source of information and experiance while in other locations ICF's are simply something someone looks up in a catalog..

     Trust me, you want the former not the latter.  Building with ICF's can be a great experiance where you will save dramatically over many other methods.. or they can be a disaster..

    Specific brand?  I used Reward forms because the reward rep really bent over backwards to help me out and make sure I didn't make a mistake, even to the point of coming to my job site and checking everything prior to pour. In addition the pumper truck guys were wonderful to work with.    

     I paid more for my reward forms than I would have paid for other forms I had available.. however the help, guidance, and support were worth the differance easily..   MY last job with reward forms I would have been insane to attempt without the guidance I recieved from them earlier.

     Blow outs can occur and when they do you can't believe the level of disaster that is.   However I never had a blow out and thanks to the pump truck operator never really risked one.*

   * what happened is while I was busy vibrating the forms the kid I had hired to run the hose stood in one spot and tried to fill the whole form up which is a sure way to get a blow out. the pumper truck operator stopped the pour when he saw that and told the kid  the proper techinique again . Hearing things stop I came to investigate and  overheard the operator educate the kid again..  Luckily the operator stopped when he did because a bulge was  starting to form which took a few minutes  to brace so it was eliminated.   The pump operator had the cement truck driver run the vibrator while I braced and in a few minutes we were back pumping.   

     What happens if you do have a blow out is the pump operator has to keep pumping or the concrete will set up in the hose. So in addition to all the concrete coming out of the blow out you have to deal with all the concrete coming from the hose..

    Now all of that has to be dealt with before the concrete starts to harden. ..

     did I mention that concrete is heavy?    

     

6. 
   sapwood | Dec 04, 2007 12:49am | #10

   I used Quad-lock on my building. No problems whatsoever. I've no experience other than that one time.

1. 
   Smitty1 | Dec 08, 2007 04:58pm | #16

   Thank you, Sapwood!

7. 
   IdahoDon | Dec 09, 2007 09:54am | #25

   Has there been any problems that you have heard about using this method?

   In the past we've been hired to rebuild an ICF foundation put together by someone else that fell in on itself during a pour due to poor bracing.  That's the worst problem I can think of.

   Most contractors around here have snakey ICF walls since they don't brace or straighten the walls enough.  A row of beer coolers packed with wet concrete aren't all that stiff.

   Happy Holidays!

   PS  We like the ARXX brand blocks and the bracing system that we can rent as needed. 

    

   Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

1. 
   Smitty1 | Dec 28, 2007 06:30am | #26

   IdahoDon,

    

   Thank you.