I’m looking to build a garage/shop.
Wondering what would be the best way to insulate a pole building. I’m located near Pittsburgh, PA.
Anyone ever seen closed cell sprayed directly on the back side of the metal?
Maybe I should just put in a conventional foundation and stick frame.
Replies
I've got to do that soon. Our plan is to net on the inside of the purlins on the inside and outside, then blow with cellulose.
At the sill I intend to put 4 inch rips of foam to keep the cellulose off the slab. Then cover the walls with the metal panels.
The ceiling will be covered wiyh metal and then blown with cellulose.
That's the plan, but I'd like hear some feedback from someone who has done this too.
Rich
Foam would probably be great ... as long as you cover it w/ e.g. gypsum wall board (GWB). Code requires foam be protected and that GWB be in "substantial contact" with the surface of the foam. Pretty standard code language that has been in place for quite a while, now. Not sure if other materials would suffice as a fire rated construction (e.g. metal). Your BO should be able to give you an idea of a good way to handle this.
wivell
it's never that simple.
Because I was near a plant that made SIP's I got great prices by buying direct.. if I had to go through a lumberyard there would have been no way in the world for me to buy them..
I was also able to get ICF's at a tremendous price and in retrospect I wish I'd done the walls with ICF's rather than SIP's Either way they are both far superior to pole building for ease and costs.. (and thermal efficency)
I understand that not everybody is willing to do that much work to find low prices..
Stick framing is really very inefficent there is thermal bridging issues at every stud..
plus I don't know where you are so I can't address issues like wind damage etc..
I'm looking to build a garage/shop.
How much it gets used for a garage is inversley proportional to how much it will be used for a shop. The level of insulation wil depend on its' dominant usage.
Mike Smith will be along shortly with some good advice. He has done quite a few pole barn structures for the uses you decribe.
My own shop is a metal clad framed building. Standard 2x6 walls with sheating and house wrap. 10' ceilings and drywall interior, with a trussed roof. When i ran the numbers years ago it was almost a wash on cost for a pole vs. framed structure with the interior finish the same. Good air sealing and detailing are a little easier with stick framing for me, so that was also a driver in my selection.
I do not work in there a lot so my heat stays at 50 degrees most of the time, bumped to 55-60 when am working. Can't tell you the number of heating degee days we have here, but I have used under 200 gal. of propane over the last three winters, with a 90+ forced air furnace.
Look into this product http://www.accbt.com/project_gallery.html They are made local here.
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Tim
Know anyone who has used them?
Approximate cost for10' in height, load bearing, per lineal foot?
We have built a few pole barn houses.
We use the netting and blow insulation in the walls.
If you use batts you are guaranting a mold problem. I have been told this by a few insulators here. Your climate may vary.
If you have further questions just ask.
October 17th, 2009
Jeremy and Lisa
Was there ever any doubt?
Netting on the inside of both sets of purlins like Rich mentioned?
I like that idea.
Just wondering what other ideas are out there. Since I haven't started yet I'm opne to any and all options at this point.
wivell.... some of it depends on your siding choice and strategy
but basically.... if we're doing clapboards then i pour my slabs and use a PT shoe between the posts and stud my walls
if it's an unheated structure, i use the studs to give a nailbase for shelving , etc
if it's a minimally heated structure and there is no insulation under the slab... then i'd just insulate the stud wall... your choice of insulation
sometimes we do pole-barn construction for residential additions.. so they will be super insulated with a minimum of 2" under the slab and at the edges
we set our posts ( pt 4x6 treated to .60 ) in the flat orientation ( 3 1/2 thick wall )..... and stud in between with 2x4 ( 3 1/2 )
then we horizontal strap the wall with 2x2 ( "Mooney Wall" ) and blow the 5" wall with dens-pak cellulose
so... there are many different strategies you can use dependign on what your are trying to accomplish
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
I like the idea of a stud wall in between posts. If I went this route and used 2" insulation under the slab, how would you insulate the edge of the slab while keeping out rodents,bugs, etc. ?
The structure will be heated - likely radiant in the slab.
I think CMU block work for foundations is still relatively cheap in my area, probably $1.50 per block for labor especially since this would be on grade work with no scaffolding involved. That's why I'm considering a conventional foundation.
wivell... when we build pole barn structures the bottom band is probably a pt 2x10... the 2x10 is set as the form board for the slab...if you put 2" of foam at the edge of that slab between the slab & the 2x10, it will insulate the edge and get covered by the 2x4 pt shoeMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks - makes senseSounds like this might be a good way to go.
When we have steel siding like normal pole barns, we run our studs horizontal 16" oc.
We staple the fabric to those "studs" then blow in between them.
What you don't want is to have the insulation not filling the metal siding, does that make sense?
If you aren't doing metal siding then my point is nullified.
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October 17th, 2009
Jeremy and Lisa
Was there ever any doubt?
Edited 1/26/2009 5:16 pm by bstcrpntr
"What you don't want is to have the insulation not filling the metal siding.."Are you applying the fabric to the "outside" purlins as well or blowing the insulation tight to the exterior metal siding?
tight against the metal siding, keeps all insulation same temp and no condensation, if you use batts in the walls I showed then you have a condensation problemOctober 17th, 2009
Jeremy and Lisa
Was there ever any doubt?
I use foil faced poly iso taped between the wall lumber and the siding as described on my site here: http://www.chandlerdesignbuild.com/files/PoleBarnOutbuildingsDetail.pdf
Should give you some ideas any way, have fun with it.
m
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"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
Good Stuff.
Thank you for the link.