Another jewel of an idea on my troubled project. Specs call for unfaced batt insulation in the exterior walls with a vapor permeable visqueen sheet on the inside. Insulation sub decided to use kraft faced batts. Since the studs are metal, the paper wings could not be stapled to the studs, so he used duct tape. We shot that down, went back the next week and he had done all the seams with regular tan masking tape. He claims the mfgr allows it … we are waiting for verification.
“Put your creed in your deed.” Emerson
“When asked if you can do something, tell’em “Why certainly I can”, then get busy and find a way to do it.” T. Roosevelt
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Gunner know you borrowed his contractor?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
What is "vapor permanble visqueen" ?
Do you mean something along the likes of a housewrap? They are vapor permanble but visqueen really isn't unless it is lioke a half mil thick.
Looks to me like fire the insulation sub, rip out or score the faces of the batts, install true vapor barrier using proper tape (the red expensive stuff, don't know the proper name).
Project spec book says: Provide "MemBrain" vapor retarder as mfgd by Certainteed or approved equal, installed on warm side over unfaced fiberglass insulation.""Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
MemBrain is a polyamide film.IIRC visqueen is a polyethalene.http://tinyurl.com/ywhnf9"Basic Use: CertainTeed MemBrain™ SMART Vapor Retarder is a vapor retarder sheeting intended for use with unfaced, vapor permeable mass insulation (fiber glass and mineral wool) in wall and ceiling cavities.Benefits: MemBrain™ SMART Vapor Retarder is a polyamide film that changes its permeability with the ambient humidity condition. The product’s permeance is 1 perm or less when tested in accordance with ASTM E 96, dry cup method, and increases to greater than 10 perms using the wet cup method. This process allows closed building envelope systems to increase their drying potential with seasonal climatic changes. With a high resistance to water vapor in winter, MemBrain reacts to relative humidity by altering pore size, allowing water vapor to pass through it. When conditions change and relative humidity increases above 60%, the pores in the material expand and its permeability increases. This transformation permits drying to occur, in either direction, through the process of vapor diffusion. Thus, its lowered resistance value supports the drying process, therefore decreasing moisture accumulation within the construction and potential moisture damage.This product can be used in place of traditional vapor retarders with unfaced fiber glass insulation to provide an insulation system that is ideal in some of the more severe climate condition areas in terms of both temperature and humidity."Note that they have a TB on using it with steel studs..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Bill what's a TB?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Technical Buliten.Look at the links on that page..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Fasteddie,
Did you ever frame in North Texas? Might be a lot of Fasteddies.
I am curious what the outside sheathing is on this house. Is there any rigid insulation on the outside? I just came back from a Building Science Seminar and they claimed that putting insulation in a metal stud cavity is a waste of money. I started hearing this concept about a year ago.
If I understand it correctly..The only practical way to insulate a steel stud wall is to put ALL the insulation on the outside.
I know this may sound a little crazy to some. You can put insulation in the cavity if you want to but you will get very little value because of the conductance of the steel studs.
If you are going to build with steel ..I encourage you to look into this.
Has anyone else heard of this?
I lived in Garland & Rowlett for 14 yrs but have never framed.
This is a commercial bank building, structural steel & concrete floors, 16 ga metal studs for the exterior wall framing, masonry exterior skin. The contractor doing this job has caused me untold headaches, as noted in othr discussions."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
>>he had done all the seams with regular tan masking tape. He claims the mfgr allows it ... we are waiting for verification.
Personally, if the mfg does allow it, I'd insist it all be replaced - this is a common sense issue: masking tape has a very limited life span - much shorter than a house wall.
If the manufacturer allows it, who wants anything from that manufacturer?
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
wouldn't the kraft paper be pressed against adjacent kraft facing. and be held in place by the drywall? so what if it disintegrates?
good points about steel studs
wouldn't the kraft paper be pressed against adjacent kraft facing. and be held in place by the drywall? so what if it disintegrates?.I think that you are right.BUT THERE IS A BIG BUT.Now I have limited experience in this area.But with metal studs you have a void on one side.The FG insulation that I have seen for use on metal walls is wider and forced fit. And is unfaced.Using the faced FG probably means that it for wood stud and thus has a gap at each stud and you willl have a cold spot in each bay..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
aahh, yeah, yer right, bill.
(i work in Qc. and we haven't used paper-backed since -when?- the 70's? I started construction in '79, I think. Vapour-barrier is just poly here- and usually referred to by thickness- as in 6-mil. Code requires stamped/labelled stuff--ordered as "super-six" First time I heard the word "Visqueen", I just went "Huh?", (or, "eh?"). We used to glue every seam with acoustic sealant--it woulde stay sticky for 20 years, and guaranteed, it would stick to tape measure, new jeans, hair,....)
I don't see what the problem is.
You get the guy in there, look around and say, "Man that's some good work. I like it. Now take it all out and do it right so I can pay you."
SamT