The proposal is to use 4/4 (nominal) 1×6 Ipe for a simple, drop siding. There’ll be a shallow 3/16 x 1″ ledger dado along the inside of the bottom edge, thus allowing a 1″ area for blind nailing. The issue: Due to the weight and strength of this wood, my idea is to drill oversize mounting holes and use a single #10 screw on each stud, allowing the siding to be mounted without overly squeezing it, room to flex a little without trying to leave the building.
Some Ipe users tell of decks that strip all the undermounting hardware the first time the seasons change. The next says he’s never seen the stuff even wiggle. I know there must be a lot of factors contributing to siding’s stability. We’ll be treating both sides with an appropriate preservative; sealing the cut ends; mounting with air space between siding and 15# paper. I know it would be easier just to screw though the face, but I really, really hate to see screwheads in our (Central Texas) climate. I suspect even gold would start staining after facing a couple of our warmer summers. Corners are still under discussion.
Can we hang this stuff this way? Is there any merit to tightening the screws just snug without pinning the boards so tightly? I know that’s how they used to do metal or vinyl (back in my day–right after they invented housing), with slots to hang the stuff without crushing. Will heavy, hard wood do as well?
hmmm?
Gonna be some quick, cheap job, ain’t it?
Butch
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Replies
What's your engineer got to say about the framing & foundation to hold all that weight? Man, should be pretty though!
It's a cliffhanger on I beams, stable soil. Engineer just says "oy".
the wood won't move in the long direction, so as long as you've just got 1 screw at each stud, it shouldn't want to tear itself apart. I think that there would be enough room for any movement if you drilled a slightly oversize hole and used pan head screws (recessed below the surface, of course) so the wood could move if it really needed to. I would definitely not want to have the screws too tight. Would be bad news if the screw heads started popping off come spring.
zak
zakThanks. It's easy to congratulate you on your sage insights when they exactly match what I've been thinking. Other than popping screws, the concern is possible warping along the bottom edge. Probably more cosmetic than structural, but anything that can go wrong....Butch
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I did a IPE deck where the only fastener we used (99%) was 3M 5200 adhesive sealant. Saw Norm and Tom do it on TOH. I don't think a blind screw and a dab of 5200 on the bottom edge would be a bad idea. I don't think I'd seal it though. The deck we did was only 16 square but it has almost no mechanical fasteners. No care for the last 5 years and it turned a pretty silver. I think this stuff is impervious to water. I have recently seen someone try to T&G it to tight and it buckled on a porch. The 5200 is extremely flexible and has worked well.
Good Luck
(do your friends call you "the" )?Been out of all this for a long time, looks like it's time to investigate adhesives. I once sent for a sample of TOH mag--the cover had Norm and his sidekick sitting on horses. Thought I'd gotten "This Old Horse" by mistake, never subscribed. I'll definitely try to track down the deck episode. thanksButch
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ScottHow is the deck holding up.See http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=77560.1
I haven't heard anything negative from them. I'm sure it's doing well or they would have called. I've done some other work on a beach house for the same clients and didn't hear a word other than they loved their deck and pergola. I'll try to get over and check it out next week.
Scott
scattergun,
I sided a 2nd floor of a 4,000s.f. house using ipe about two years ago. We used stainless screws because of previous experiences with the gold screws eventually bleeding on the wood. I recommend drilling the holes bigger than the screws. We mounted ours vertical with a ship lap. Looks amazing still but I couldnt believe how much that stuff moves around and shrinks. Here in colorado it is really dry along the front range so I believe that has alot to do with it but if you can buy it a couple months before needing it and dry it out as much as possible you should have no problems. The other thing is how long it took our guys to intall the siding, holy crap! Good luck!
J:Glad to hear from hands-on folks. I know the stuff is famous for moving; here in Central Texas we have the "best" (worst) of all worlds. Just now we're on a months-long drought. This summer we might have 40 days over 100 degrees, or none, but with 10 or 20 inches of rain. One December it was so wet that every steel tool in my workshop rusted. I wouldn't live anywhere else, and whatever I finally hang on the house is just going to have to look out, since nothing lasts too long around here but stone, and that's a tough transition for a house that doesn't touch the ground anywhere.thanksButch
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hey Butch, I've worked with alot of ipe. The only tip I can add is that when you make that dado, make sure you orient all your stock so that the bark side is in when it's on the wall. That way, if any cupping does happen, it'll all curl inwards and stay tight to the board underneath it. This is the way I like to attach (screw and plug) all my ipe decking .. bark down.
I'm thinking of milling all that Ipe` and who I might be able to get to do it.Whew!My mind goes to the story of King David and his warrior Uriah.
"Let Uriah mill those dadoes, Boys!"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I know Banner Elk does ipe milling
http://www.trimscrew.com/index.htmand so does East Teak
http://www.eastteak.com/I've heard good reports about both companies ..
jOEwOODI guess Atlanta's closer (only 1000 miles) than Washington (isn't that out northwest of Dallas someplace?), but I'm pretty sure that would sort run up the cost, especially if Ipe turned out to be very heavy. (!)I'm low on my supply of yellow sawdust anyway.Butch
Scattergun Press(and who could forget the classic, "If I had it to do all over again, I'd do it all over you."?
Edited 2/1/2006 12:53 am ET by scattergun
Piffin:The only milling will be the one dado on the inside, lower edge, probably 5/32 deep by 1". Just enough to use as a ledger and improved water seal. I've got an older mini-max combo machine with a 3.6 hp 1 1/4" shaper that I've always wanted to fit with a good power feeder. The local mill will do whatever I want for about $.30/l. ft.--one face or edge, 2 or even 4, it's all the same price. Since I'm probably looking at 2500 sq. ft (minimum) times 2.6 l.ft....there's probably room in there for a good, used feeder.(single phase. anybody got one?)Especially since I've been informed that I an NOT going to be the geezer up there on the swing stage or pump jacks covering this thing at the rate of several sq. ft./day. I'll have to be doing something that needs to be done while getting all that wonderful exercise and making that great shaper noise for my day-sleeping neighbors. ;-)Butch
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Joe, That sounds like the best advice I've heard so far. Have you ever attached Ipe from underneath? I can stand under all my decks, and plan to use my own system--angle irons screwed to the joists and then straight up into the deck. A guy selling one of the clip systems said that without complete penetration of the deck I'll never get it to hold. Really? I've heard horror stories of migrating decks shearing off DeckMaster system screws due to the angle (of course, I heard that from the guy selling Tigerwhatever clips--those things that create a water opening on the edge of the board).Thanks
Butch
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It's interesting how Ipe is relatively stable compared to other woods, but the little it does move is just darn hard to stop. Great wood and it sounds like a fantastic project.
It will be interesting to see what kind of life your shaper blades have--let us know once you're in the thick of things.
South of us Ipe is used for all sorts of things, while americans typically only use it for decks. Too bad really.
Besides one deck (using 5/4 ipe and EBTYs) I've always used 3/4 stock and screwed it down from the top. That's the best and strongest way to hold down any decking. I don't like any of the hidden fastener methods, especially any of the EBTY type systems. If the wood does move while it acclimates those little bisquets can slip out.
Ipe is a very dense wood. Typically the average moisture content throughout the year is around 11% of course depending on the area. If a wood typically weighs twice the amount of another wood it will also contain twice the amount of water at the same percentage moisture content. The more dense the wood the more water it will contain and typically causes more problems.