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I’ve had portions of my Ipe deck down for 6 winters now. I’m both the homeowner and the builder so I live with whatever I do.
For spacing, I left no gap on the butt ends, and shrinkage there was almost non-existant. On the width, I used 4″ wide, and they shrunk about 1/16 to 3/32.
I’d go with nothing but stainless. If you’ve ever studied corrosion (I work in the auto industry), you’ll see that it will start at places like the screw head where your bit presses, and probably starts a very localized fracture of the galvanized coating. The screws may look OK for a few years, but over time, they will rust. You’re buying a wood that will last for 20 years without any finish added, and probably 50 years with normal deck maintenance, so why not spend the small increment and get a screw to match. Your galvanized screws will be rusty in 3 to 5 years. I removed 5 year old stainless screws and they were like new. I never could understand the price of even the galvanized deckmaster. It’s only a piece of roll-formed metal and should sell for about 1/3 what they charge.
I use Penofin and have been very pleased. Application is simple and fast. The drawback that keeps a lot of contractors from using it is that for a good application, you should let dry for a day or two between coats (I typically put down two), and contractors want a fast drying product to allow both coats in one trip. I spoke with both the Penofin folks and a water based product, and stuck with the oil. There are other posts in the archives on the finish question.
I don’t think you’ll see any cup in Ipe, even with 6″ boards. It’s so dense and stable that it hardly moves.
Good luck.
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I've had portions of my Ipe deck down for 6 winters now. I'm both the homeowner and the builder so I live with whatever I do.
For spacing, I left no gap on the butt ends, and shrinkage there was almost non-existant. On the width, I used 4" wide, and they shrunk about 1/16 to 3/32.
I'd go with nothing but stainless. If you've ever studied corrosion (I work in the auto industry), you'll see that it will start at places like the screw head where your bit presses, and probably starts a very localized fracture of the galvanized coating. The screws may look OK for a few years, but over time, they will rust. You're buying a wood that will last for 20 years without any finish added, and probably 50 years with normal deck maintenance, so why not spend the small increment and get a screw to match. Your galvanized screws will be rusty in 3 to 5 years. I removed 5 year old stainless screws and they were like new. I never could understand the price of even the galvanized deckmaster. It's only a piece of roll-formed metal and should sell for about 1/3 what they charge.
I use Penofin and have been very pleased. Application is simple and fast. The drawback that keeps a lot of contractors from using it is that for a good application, you should let dry for a day or two between coats (I typically put down two), and contractors want a fast drying product to allow both coats in one trip. I spoke with both the Penofin folks and a water based product, and stuck with the oil. There are other posts in the archives on the finish question.
I don't think you'll see any cup in Ipe, even with 6" boards. It's so dense and stable that it hardly moves.
Good luck.
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I saw your other post in the list and remembered that I never really answered your spacing question. I spaced my boards using a 6d nail.
One other thing that came to mind. If you're using long boards (14', 16'), there may be a very slight bow. I was able to tweak them using a pipe clamp. See the latest issue of FHB for a tip on how to use as an expander bearing against the rim joist. I used a scrap of 20 gage 2" angle, slipped it between two already installed boards, and compressed the clamp rather than expand. To start, pick the straightest pieces you have and see how they match up against a chalk line. With the pipe clamp, you can "dial in" micrometer precision.
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Thanks guys!
Back to the stainless question: Here are the prices for deckmaster from my supplier (I need 200 brackets; 2000 #8 joist screws; 1600 #10 bracket screws):
Stainless:
brackets $357 per 100
#8 1" screws for joists $69.82 per 1000, $8.18 per 100
#10 1 1/4" screws for decking $119 per 1000, $13.14 per 100
Galvinized:
brackets WITH screws, $241 per 100
Let's see, that would be $1,053 for stainless, or $482 for galvinized! Either way, you're right, it is too expensive, but the diference is huge. And remember, the screw heads for the brackets will basically be upside-down and underneath the decking, so water shouldn't puddle in the screw head. But if you really think stainless screws would be that much better, I could use them with the galvinized bracket, as long as the mixing of metals won't be a problem. What do you think?
*I used galv. for the reason you state -- they're sheltered ... and even if they do rust, who's going to see them? I use a lot of stainless fasteners when they'll be visible (or could become visible by leching rust) but the cost and the extreme aggravation when you get sloppy and rip out a recess or two make them less than a joy...The galv. brackets will rust just like the screws -- all it takes is a scratch. And their galv. is NOT very good quality from what i can tell. i would suggest the SS brackets & screws for very picky applications or marine exposures -- I think that's what the company itself says.Can i recommend nailing the brackets to the joists? I used screws and thought it was a waste of time.
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Bryan, see a post down aways about deck fasteners. I cautioned about the stainless showing, as per the caution by Deckmaster and offered a soulution with brown flashing. Also try either http://www.mcfeeleys.com or Manasquan Fasteners for better Deckmaster and hardware prices. McFeely offers a No-Co-Rode screw which I know nothing about but claims to be an improvement on galvinized. A 100 brackets are at McFeely are $295, not the $357 you quote. Comparable reductions on screws. Manasquan the same. Check it out.
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I used the nocorrode -- basically the sam as galv. without the plugged recesses. i found the square drive very annoying for this kind of work -- no off-center driving.
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How will Brass screws do on an Ipe' deck?
I am about to install 456 lf of 4/4 x 6 Ipe'. I dont like the contrast of SS with the wood and brass is about 12 the price. None of the lumber yards in my area stock deckmaster and from what I can tell it may cost too much for my budget.
Would there be a problem with brass? I imagine they might loosen with time.
Any help is appreciated.
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brass soft weak yech ESPECIALLY given how incredibly hard the ipe is!
How much is the ipe per sf? A 22" deckmaster clip is about $2, plus a few pennies for screws. Not much when you're already paying for a premium deck material that should last forever. You can mailorder them from mcfeelys (www.mcfeelys.com) or I'm sure your lumberyard can obtain them.
I disliked the clips and hope I never work with them again but, oddly, I would probably recommend them to a client buying an expensive deck material. I bet I could install them MUCH faster the second time around.
*I haven't built a deck, but several homemade solutions come to mind. I'd like to know what objections there might be to them.Screw from the top in counter-bored holes and plug with tapered plugs made from scrap. Glue with Titebond 2 or epoxyAttach ledger strips to the joists with construction adhesive and screws, and screw the deck boards from below.Drill deep holes up through the joists and screw the boards down with a long driver.For cupping, mill the boards with a slight convex upper surface.For finish, spar varnish, either neat or thinned.For spacing, tight, but use one screw per joist in the center of the board.All of them more work, but fewer $$. I'd save the Ipe for interior work and furniture and use PT SYP for decks. Slumming over from K(s)nots
*One objection: labor. I suffer from this terminal condition, sad to say, known as a "finite lifespan." The tension with these decks is between looks/durability and labor efficiency.One lumberyard here offeres remilled pt with a curved surface -- I'll take a look when it comes up. the less milling I do of the stuff the better. Anyway, the milling is for drainage, not the greater movement of cupping.
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I'm getting ready to install about 400 s.f. of Ipe' decking on my deck, and I have a few questions:
1. Spacing - both butt end and between boards. Those of you who have had it down for a few years, what has the shrinkage been like? Do I need to leave a gap between boards, and if so how much? Or should I just lay it up tight and let it shrink?
2. Fasteners - I'm using the deck master brackets, and the stainless steel is so much more expensive than galvinized that it doesn't seem justifiable. But what about the screws? Should I use stainless steel screws anyway? If so, why? And what happens when galvinized brackets are mixed with stainless steel screws? Everyone seems to say use stainless fastners with Ipe' but I don't see any reason for here in Maryland (I'm not near the ocean).
3. Finish - I want U.V. protection to maintain the red-brown color of the wood. What brand offers the best protection and requires the fewest re-applications?
4. Cupping - I'm using the 5/4" X 6" boards (I think). Is there a problem with these boards cupping? If so, what can I do to minimize it?
Thanks!