I am building a new house. The roofer did not
install a drip edge along the roof before laying
the felt and shingles. In addition, the shingles
overhang by an inch or two. I looked at
neighboring houses and they do not have a drip
edge either. The aluminum fascia goes up to the
shingles and then has been bent up and out away
from the roof. With the shingles overhanging, it
basically covers the edge of the roof and the
fascia edge.
Is this common, and can’t water still get between
the shingles and fascia and lead to problems down
the road? On the roofs I’ve worked on, we’ve always
used drip edge.
Replies
Did you have a contract?
If not, then I would go by the regional standard. It seems that you got what everybody else has. I wouldn't fault a roofer for going along with everybody else.
I do prefer drip edge, and would never do a roof without it. Next time, be sure to ask for it.
Jon Blakemore
When you do use a drip edge, does it go under the felt paper or on top of it??
Slightly different problem, but I noticed that water was running down my cedar facia boards and then wind would drive it back up and under the soffit. I got the galvanized drip edges that fasten onto the bottom of the facia and that cured the problem. The bottom edge of the facia is about 3/4" below the bottom of the soffit.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
I try to imagine where the water will go and why I'm using a drip edge in the first place, so...I put the felt OVER the drip edge at the eave and UNDER the drip edge at the rake.
Also, a drip edge is no guarantee of success. It's important not to trim or align the shingles flush with the drip edge, especially on low-slope roofs (rooves?). Let the shigles overhang a bit so the water can fall free into the gutter or to the ground and not wrap around by capillary action and run along the face of the fascia.
It's a whole lot easier to do these simple things right the first time than it is to fix them later. But then, most of my work is fixing this stuff that other guys screw up. These water problems seem to show up after the checks have cleared and the "contractor" is long gone.
Al Mollitor, Sharon, MA
The best method IMHO is to use ice and water shield (especially in areas with ice dams). I like two layers. One layer under the drip edge and then one on top of the drip edge. The one under seals the nails from the drip edge and the one on top prevents the water from backing up under the drip. The two layers add a little cost but the roof is suppose to last 15 yrs.
Archy
funny you should mention using two layers of ice shield.
I just did that using the self sticking iceshield across the whole roof, then drip edge and then about a six inch layer of I.S stuck on top of the drip edge and onto the firt layer of ice shield. Was easy enough and it really seemed water tight.
I did it under wood shingles and cedar breather.
"Understanding yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth"
Alan Watts
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Never heard of a roof without drip edge.
Don't understand your description clearly - Any chance we could get a pic?
Save California. when you leave, take someone with you.
Don't you remember shingle moldind?
That was all there use to be.
you mean the wet piece of wood with no paint on it ?.. yeah, i remember....maybe in dry climate.. but our climate will keep that shingle mold wet on the back side and peeling the paint off the front... Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"Don't you remember shingle molding?"
Nope - Never heard of it. Guess that means I'm not nearly as old as you.....................(-:I still miss my ex...but my aim is getting better
I've torn off maybe 700-800 squares of shingles.Never really saw any evidence that drip edge was needed in general.I have used it in special situations as a preventive measure.Here in the southeast it is probaly an unnecessary expense.Necessary in wetter areas I suppose.
I had a garage built recently. The roofer did not install drip edge, and told me that here (WI) it is not required nor common practice on new construction. He also told me that it is typically installed to cover the underlying shingles on a reroof so it doesn't look so bad. That much said, I've always installed it any time I did roofing. Given that a lot of roof decking is OSB these days, and that its edge is exposed to the elements, seems to me like installing it is cheap insurance against the edge of the decking swelling from moisture (OSB or not).
Jon
Edited 4/8/2003 6:55:03 PM ET by WorkshopJon
The directions on shingles require a drip edge.
The purpose of the drip edge:
To keep water from running up the bottom of the shingles and onto the decking.
all the roofing manuals also require drip edge..
in the cases mentioned above, it is just another example of " we've always done it like this " being another example of someone who doesn't know their own trade
but hey, whadda i no ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
There really needs to be a lip at the edge of the roof to keep the water from running down the facia and to prevent it from wicking back up under the shingles. What a lot of roofers try to get away with is creating this lip with the shingles and eliminating the drip edge. The problem is- it doesn't work.
When the shingles hang out there like that they are easily broken off when there is nothing under them supporting the asphalt lip. I suspect that is why the facia is bent out as you describe it. The other problem is that the asphalt material will not shed water that rolls back under the shingle as effectively as a metal drip edge.
The approach you described is better than just leaving the shingles hanging out there but it is still not the right way to do it. For all the work of bending that facia, it sure seems like it would have been easier to just do it right.
Kevin Halliburton
"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard-
I worked for several years in a dry climate area where it was not standard to use drip edge but I still consider it a necessity.
That detail described with the aluminum facia flange bent out under the shingle edge is even worse. Wicking will drag water back behind the cladding and hold it there to rot the wood underneath even quicker..
Excellence is its own reward!
Wicking will drag water back behind the cladding and hold it there to rot the wood underneath even quicker.
You're probably right- well heck, your Piffin, of course your right. I've never seen that little facia bending trick before. I was just trying to come up with a good reason for it.
There are a lot of roofs missing drip edge around Abilene as well. That's how I know it doesn't work. The first time someone leans a ladder against that asphalt edge its all over but the cracking.
No substitute for doing it right. Drip edge just doesn't cost enough to justify eliminating it to save a buck.Kevin Halliburton
"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard-
That little flange probably does lend some sort of support to the shingle overhang but not to be worth the rot it causes..
Excellence is its own reward!
What a surprise that there are as many opions as posts on this subject. Here's my take.
I don't like the detail that you described. I think your roofer has created a funnel for any water that wicks or splashes back up from the gutters if there are any.
Generally, I would say read the shingle wrapper and install per manufacturers recommendations. But I believe that manufacture rec's may be biased in favor of increasing the longevity of one building component at the expense of others. I have known quite a few roofers who have never read any manufacturers instructions let alone the instructions for the product they are laying on a given day. I also know some roofers who have the benefit of seeing many years of tear offs and roof failures that may not need to read instructions to do a quality job.
I generally install drip at all perimeter terminations over the felt, and I prefer the premium type with a 1-1/4" vertical flange with a hem on it. I go over the felt because if any water would back up under the shingle and up the drip, it will travel down the felt. I'm not a big fan of ice and water guard, and don't have it on my own house. I would rather correct the insulation problem.
Tom
tommy, ice & water for the first 3' of eave , or 18" inside the building line, is code required in RIMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Interesting Mike. Do they still allow top cord bearing trusses, blown in fiberglass with fully vented soffit, or improperly insulated kitchen bulkheads? These are the types of situations in new relatively new construction that I have seen lead to Ice damming problems.
I don't see how ice damming can be prevented by ice and water guard. The damaging effects, maybe. I've always thought of I&W as material that forgives bad insulation practices. As an added layer of protection I have no problem with it, but now you have some guy posting on here that two layers is better than one.
Now if a customer insists that a low slope roof be shingled, I like to I&W the whole thing. Its also great for preflashing skylights, but not necessary except in low slope conditions.
I got a roofing question for you Mike. I had a customer insist that step flashing needs counter flashed prior to the installation of vinyl siding. What do you think? Same customer wants andersen windows drip capped. Also wants horizontal roof to wall flashing counter flashed. Tom
well... what can i say ?..
hmm...yup , i'd counter flash the step flash.. and the horizontal roof intersection.. but i'd use 15lb. felt to do it...
if the andersen windows come with the vinyl drip cap.. i'd use it.. if it doesn't i'd use a seprerate drip cap... ..if it was getting vinyl.. i'd cover the jambs & head with a spline of grace ...
but.. some accuse me of being anal...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I like to use "Style D" edge under the felt. I've found that in some areas the yards don't know what "Style D" is and you have to get them to order it. Oddly, in the wettest place I've lived (an island in Puget Sound) it was common NOT to use a metal drip edge. I got the local supplier to start carrying "Style D".
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
I don't know what style "D" is, but I'm surprised nobody so far has mentioned installing a Roof Apron instead of just plain drip edge material.
For anyone who may not know what a roof apron is, it's a drip edge that has a very wide top flange for nailing, and it has a hemmed seam that accepts Alcoa "K" style gutters. The back side of the gutter is pushed up and becomes locked into the protruding hem. This apron effectively holds the gutter in place against the fascia board. Hangers are still used to keep the front face of the gutter from sagging.
Using this type of system, water cannot work behind the fascia, and the extra wide nailing flange prevents water from weeping too far back underneath the shingles, thus the water eventually winds up into the gutter. This system ( along with a piece of water/ice guard placed overtop of the apron's nailing flange) pretty much guarentees a waterproof system.
Davo
Follow on to FHB "great moments" of Nov, 1990, "A ten year roof".
Did not use a drip edge on cabin near Mt. St. Helens (rain forest, lotsa moss, etc), instead left 1-1/2 roll roofing overhang.
Noticed this year the there was rot in the edge of plywood roofing, since I give a lifetime gaurantee <G>, had to replace one whole eave edge and 20 feet of edge above the gutters.
On own house in Seattle area, not only do I have drip edges, there is galv. sheet under the drip edge that extends 1" into the gutter so there is zero wood exposure above the gutter. All eaves also have drip edges, installed with tar adhesive to the decking.
My lumberyard sells something called a "Florite" (something like that) drip edge. It has TWO lips that hang down. One buts up against the sheathing or fascia, the second - about an inch further out - hangs down over the gutter. This pretty much guarantees that water will not wrap around onto the fascia.
I used it once as a retrofit in one of those common situations where water was getting behind the gutter because the shingles were trimmed too close to the original drip edge. It did the job well, but fastening a drip edge under existing shingles isn't very satisfying.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
I think that's what I learned to call "Style D" edge.Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.