This is a long one, so bear with me………
OK, I know I’ll get an earful on this but I deserve it. Back in January I got cold called by a framing contractor, him thinking I was a paper GC, wanting to add to his work for the spring/summer. I meet with the “working” partner. Gave him prints, discussed the project I had in mind for him and expectations. Keep in mind this the first time I handed off framing to anyone, actually any carpentry I’ve always done on my own but I was willing to give “frame subbing” a go, thinking everybody runs a site like I like to. He had the right answers, to my question of him and his crew being able to turn over a good product in short time and the bid was within my numbers so I gave him the shot.
Now the fun starts, no contract….verbal go ahead for framing, window install, and clap siding (25k labor only). This is how I’ve been hired out for the same work, so I was comfortable doing it in reverse. Yeah I know my blindness in trying to help out a start up. Anyway, day one in April somewhere he shows up gung ho with no worked in tools, and tape measures with fractions printed on them. Everything coming right out of the boxes, still putting fittings on as layout is going on or what he was calling what he was doing. Come to find out his “crew” was slapped together right out of the help wanted left overs the Friday before, never working together…..bottom line he didn’t have the guys to do the job from what I could see like he said he had them back in January. He probably could do the lead work, but was always “checking” on his other jobs. So not much was getting done without rework, bad cuts everywhere, blocking ready for dental work, and shims every where I could see. This itself was raising my blood pressure, and I’m considered soft spoken.
Being a corporation in MA like my company is, he was required to have workers comp on his guys and Liabiliaty. On the original meeting in January he says he got it all , part of the reason I gave him the go. When it was time to provide the info for him to get his first progress check in April…..guess what no certificates of Insurance could be provided. He also failed to mention that he didn’t incorporate till April which would make it difficult to get comp coverage so quickly, big surprise, no.. at this point but he was already onsite and I was on another job framing. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and gave him 24hrs to provide commitments from an Insurance company. I get a cert from his Ins agency with “TBD” for the policy number within the 24hrs, bad karma here. I’ll let that chapter end there. But it hasn’t really. I have a very good understanding of the risks involved here!!
It get’s better, now being the micromanager I am I layout some areas for his “crew” whenever I was onsite checking in and they were scratching their heads and he was “checking out” one of his jobs. This got on my nerves after 4-5 times so I grind into him about his help. The following Monday a new crew member, who can read prints shows up, freshly hired of course. No production increase though, his other jobs must be running much better wouldn’t you think, that of course if there are other jobs.
Now over the course of 4 weeks, 4 weeks!! on a straight forward 1900 sqft project he doesn’t have the rafters in. Not to mention I did all the work out for them on story sticks, Header RO’s, the bastard (irregular) valley’s pitches, top plate heights, cuts, and provided the cut work on a print out my 14 yr old could cut from. And what does one of the crew ask me this morning? who’s going to lay out the valley jacks? You (meaning me) or Kevin (being his boss). Am I missing something, looks like I hired extra workers not a framing sub contractor this may be my fault trying to help them get it done faster.
On a 25k job I gave him 5000 as a deposit. The 5k + bad cuts means nothing in relation to the timeline now coming in hard on the 350k project. And the size of the punchlist he’s creating for himself and me indirectly. Now I gotta do something
The question to you gentlemen. Do I boot him off the job and back charge his butt for “my” crews expense to fix/finish the project, and on what grounds? Or continue to hold his hand hoping he’ll get it together, which is doubtful at this point since he hasn’t even checked in with his crew for 3 days? Or are they 1099er’s not working for him directly under the corporation?
Mind you he still owns the window install and siding from the verbal agreement ( I can only imagine the havoc that’ll be to see). The bad part, I’m wrapping up another larger job started at the same time, but I’ll be doing the int trim package too so I won’t be able to jump over right away. Which would make my time crunch worse.
Your objective opinions welcomed on how I might get through or handle this properly. If you can read my hobbled post. I thank you for your time.
Replies
my gut reaction is to get rid of him. What is he doing on this project???? Nothing. Sounds like you've been doing his job. Check with his workers, if they're 1099'ers, maybe you could keep them on to finish the job (would you want them, or just do a clean sweep and put your own crewon).
Now whats the legal ramifications of all this.
Good luck, dont envy your situation.
-m2akita
I wouldn't let him on the job again. What could you possibly gain by having him do more work? You may want to ask your attorney about the possible downside of terminating what may be a verbal contract. But... I'd get him outta there and get someone else to finish.
First, stop by the job site and see if you can get lien releases from his crew and find out how much he's been paying them.
Then kick his crew off the site and call him and tell him he's thru.
Do this tomorrow morning at rollout.
Back charge him the full labor burden and any materials replaced to have your men do the job.
Back charge him the full cost of WC for his crew for the time they have been on your job. If you don't know what he was paying, charge him as if he was paying 2 x the top wage on your crew.
Back charge him for all the work and help you have done for him.
Take him to SC for fraudulently receiving $5k from you as he is/was not properly licensed and insured.
In other words get back every cent you gave him plus every cost you have from his misdeeds.
Samt
You said it Sam T- to the T
the buck stops here and now-Lawyer up, kick his butt-move on-
Profile, please?
What does the paperwork between you consist of?
If you fire him tomorrow, do you have the help, and the time to commit, to finish it yourself?
How much out-of-pocket will you be at WC audit time for having to pick up the comp on the amounts you have paid him?
What has been his response (or whoever he has on site running the job for him) for your assistance performed, and to your requests for correction of nonconforming work?
Have you been timely and current in pointing out nonconforming or substandard work?
Right now, before tomorrow morning, put in writing, as succinctly as possible, the ways that he has failed to perform the work you awarded him verbally. Itemize every element of nonworkmanlike performance. If you corrected the work, itemize what it cost. If you can, itemize how much it will be costing you to pick up the WC he was obligated to carry. It is a termination of contract letter, and you should say this clearly.
Good luck!
Good appoach Gene, covering the bases, but i think its clear..... cut your losses and boot em- and maybe a CC to BBB
I don't disagree with anything written, but I'd have a face-to-face first, to verbally discuss your dissatisfaction, and gauge his reaction.
I would be less concerned with how much this will cost you than in getting the work done properly and in a timely manner, the way you are used to doing it.
Get him off the job and negotiate a settlement to pay for the work he and his crew have done. Bargain as hard as you want but get this done and in writing. You don't want to have this loose end biting your butt at the end of the project.
You made the mistake of keeping this guy on when he obviously was not capable of doing the job. I have made similar mistakes though thank God not on this scale. You will take a hit but do it with a smile on your face and forget about it until you do your next hire.
You gave him 5k only?
Throw him off the job and finish it yourself.
Do you really think this clown is going to come after you?? For what?
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
I thank all for the suggestions and help on this situation.
I posted here knowing I'd get the answers to shore up my gut feeling to have this guy "removed" from the project. Underperformance can really only be resolved by eliminating the problem.
I'll work on the lien waiver with the crew, if they've been paid at all during this project. And I'll begin to assemble the "Delay of project" for lack of qualified workers and "Deficient Work" papers for the faulty work standards to keep things documented as I sort this mess out. Deception is a tough explanation for what he's done, but as I look at it as you guys have, it does fit the bill.
If any other thoughts come to mind on this, please feel free to share them.
Again thanks to all.
JMDEAL
It has been mentioned already but I think it's important enough to reiterate:
Talk to your attorney! Especially before you take any direct action with framer guy.
You want to make sure you have all your "T"s crossed and your "I"s dotted before you do anything rash.
On a brighter note... When I saw the title of this thread I thought I was gonna have to come in here and talk somebody off of the window ledge.