Replies

1. 
   YesMaam27577 | Oct 22, 2006 08:56pm | #1

   Whether or not you use shoe is completely up to you, and may depend heavily on your choice of flooring.

   If you do use shoe molding, it is traditional to miter the ends a bit (22.5 degrees?) so that its much less possible to stub your toes on the ends.

    

    

   Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.

1. 
   housenut1 | Oct 30, 2006 03:29am | #26

   Thanks for the tip YesMaam27577.

2. 
   Gunner | Oct 22, 2006 08:59pm | #2

     Shoe is an option.

    

    

    

    

   http://www.hay98.com/

1. 
   Gunner | Oct 22, 2006 09:11pm | #3

     Let me explain that. If your floor is even then you don't really need shoe. If you don't want to scribe your base to the floor then I would use shoe.

     I'm in the camp that likes a self return on the end of everything including shoe. It just looks nicer then a miter cut.

    

    

    

    

    

    http://www.hay98.com/

    

1. 
   housenut1 | Oct 30, 2006 03:30am | #28

   Thanks for the tip.

2. 
   CAGIV | Oct 22, 2006 09:21pm | #5

   unless you go to the kwiky mart..

   I think shoe is completly optional, depending on the style of interior trim and base sometimes it adds to overall look IMO other times it looks like ####... like with 3" colonial base, I really dislike it with. 

1. 
   Gunner | Oct 22, 2006 09:24pm | #6

     Everytime I do it I swear I'm gonna get one of those lion trimmers.

    

    

    

    

    

    http://www.hay98.com/

    

1. 
   Jer | Oct 23, 2006 01:28am | #7

   I own a Lion trimmer, and I never use it. The only time I use it is in the shop. You're better off with a really small mitersaw.

1. 
   Gunner | Oct 23, 2006 02:03am | #8

      I'm thinking of the benefit of being able to have it right there as you go around the room and not have the mess of the saw. Is it not good for that? I've only heard about them never used one. Fill me in.

    

    

    

    

    

    http://www.hay98.com/

    

2. 
   Tomrocks21212 | Oct 23, 2006 02:59am | #9

   I had a little shoe job to do a few weeks ago. One of those up-and-coming urban areas with 4 story townhomes. Didn't want to lug my 73# miter saw up and down all those narrow stairs. Found a miter saw at Sears - 7 1/4", all aluminum, only weighs 16 or 17 pounds, I think it was $85. Worked great. DOubt if it'll hold up over time, but I've used it for narrow door casing on a couple of other projects, didn't seem to need any more block planing than with the big saw.

3. 
   Jer | Oct 23, 2006 04:08am | #12

   I have the exact same saw.  Picked it up a few months ago and have found it to be just great for those little moulding jobs that require you lug a saw up to the third floor and all you're cutting is shoe or narrow trim  (up to 3.5").  It weighs about the same as a worm drive circ saw, about 15 lbs.  I just used it all day on Friday.  It's compound and even comes with a laser which is good for rough cutting.  For $85 you can't go wrong.

4. 
   Jer | Oct 23, 2006 04:25am | #13

   A miter trimmer can be used with very small mouldings such as shoe and it takes a little getting used to.  It's primarily designed to shear off moulding trim that has already been cut to a rough 1/8" or so proud length and it zeros in to a satin smooth, very accurate final cut.  A lot of cabinet makers use them in their shop.   Picture framers use them as well in conjunction with the tool's big brother, the treadle picture frame cutter, which uses the same guillotine style cutting action and is a very heavy accurate tool.  Since the advent of the power miterbox, which can now give very accurate smooth cuts, you don't see them as much.  They actually are a great tool, you (me) just have to remember that you've got one and to drag it out.    Now that I have that little Sears saw I might not use it as much.

   You are right though, there is no sawdust at all.

   A great deal of care has to be taken in handling these tools since the thick blades are razor sharp and are exposed and can go through flesh like a hot knife through soft butter.

5. 
   Gunner | Oct 23, 2006 04:46am | #14

     So the Lion trimmer isn't good for making initial cuts in shoe?

    

    

    

    

    

    http://www.hay98.com/

    

6. 
   Jer | Oct 23, 2006 05:35am | #15

   Lol...sorry, I didn't quite answer your question did I?  The Lion trimmer would be fine for cutting shoe.  With thicker mouldings like 34" qtr rnd, you have to make more than one pass with the knife.  You should shear it off in 18 to 14" stages.  It goes very quickly once you get used to it.

7. 
   Gunner | Oct 23, 2006 05:42am | #16

     Gotcha, Thanks.

    

    

    

    

    

    http://www.hay98.com/

    

8. 
   DougU | Oct 26, 2006 04:32am | #17

   Gunner

   What the Lion trimmer is really good for is picture frames.

   Makes miters dead nuts on.

   Back when the only thing available to make miters was the trusty Stanley miter box a certain amount of clean up and trimming was necessary and if you've ever tried to take just a saw blades worth off a piece of base you'll know why the Lion trimmer was handy.

   I have one and use it for furniture making but I never use it to do trim work, to easy to just go shave a RCH off the wood.

   Maybe more then you  cared to know but you didnt pay much for it!

   Doug

9. 
   Gunner | Oct 26, 2006 04:37am | #18

      That's exactly what I was looking for thanks. Saved me a few bucks.

    

    

    

    

    

    http://www.hay98.com/

    

10. 
    FastEddie | Oct 26, 2006 05:02am | #19

    $40 at Amazon.  Made by Stanley.  If Buck was still here he would be promoting it.  I have one, real handy.  Cordless, reversible, very quiet.

    View Image

     

      

    "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

11. 
    Gunner | Oct 26, 2006 05:06am | #20

      That's really not bad to buzz out a floor with Shoe or quarter round with. If I did alot of that I might look into it.

     

     

     

     

     

     http://www.hay98.com/

     

12. 
    bigman | Oct 26, 2006 05:50pm | #21

    On my house I used a tapered shoe (ctshoe) in oak to match the floor and used a 4" x 9/16- 1/4" beaded base with a rabbetted botom (wm750) that sits over the shoe, looks real trick

    similar mouldings are at  http://www.gardenstatelumber.com/html/base.html

2. 
   cynwyd | Oct 31, 2006 05:51pm | #39

   I have a Lion trimmer and one thing it doesn't do well is cut returns. Since it only trims the free end of molding after you  trimmed to a 45 angle that is large enough to hold on to you can't do a cross cut.

   If you want to work on site and dustless in a finished house you can use Lion with a fine tooth saw which of course is quiet too.

3. 
   housenut1 | Oct 30, 2006 03:29am | #27

   Thanks for the tip.

3. 
   IdahoDon | Oct 22, 2006 09:15pm | #4

   I tend to leave shoe off unless absolutely necessary.  If base somehow miraculously always fit tight to floors "shoe" wouldn't even be in our vocabulary.  I'd just as soon scribe the base.

    

   Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

1. 
   housenut1 | Oct 30, 2006 03:31am | #29

   Thanks for the tip.

4. 
   Piffin | Oct 23, 2006 03:15am | #10

   We seldom use a shoe mold.

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   housenut1 | Oct 30, 2006 03:33am | #30

   Thanks for the tip.

2. 
   housenut1 | Oct 30, 2006 03:34am | #31

   Thanks for the tip.

5. 
   maverick | Oct 23, 2006 03:24am | #11

   the only time I use shoe is when the trimmer and the floor installer cant get together with respect to scheduling. IMO it just looks bad. I prefer to scribe the base

   worst of all is when a cabinet installer uses shoe to hide his crappy install. In that case I scribe the visible end panels then cover the kick space with baseboard or base kick cover, scribed of course

1. 
   housenut1 | Oct 30, 2006 03:34am | #32

   Thanks for the tip.

6. 
   Geoffrey | Oct 27, 2006 08:34am | #22

   Shoe mold is not needed on todays baseboards. The shoe mold was originally used to hide the gap between baseboard and flooring, since in the old days base was installed before the floor and before the plaster was put on the wall. The base was set first and acted as a sort of plaster stop and was then topped with a base cap molding to hide the plaster joint. The flooring was then installed leaving a small gap for expasion which was then covered by the shoe mold. The shoe was fastened to the base so as to allow the flooring to expand and contract freely.

   There does seem to be a hang-over of that style in the CT. area which uses a "shoe" with an ogee profile which is installed first on the finish floor and the base, which has a rabbet cut on the bottom backside of of itself is then installed on top of the shoe, hiding most of the prifile, but leaving what appears to be an old style shoe on the bottom of the base. The old style shoe was a "tall" 1/4 round typically 3/4" high and 5/8" deep, which was enough to cover the gap between floor and baseboard.

                                                                                                                   Geoff

   P.S.   I always scribe base against an exposed finish floor i.e. hardwood, tile, linoleum, etc...

1. 
   Ragnar17 | Oct 28, 2006 08:47pm | #23

   ...in the old days base was installed before the floor and before the plaster was put on the wall.

   When, approximately, was this a building practice?  Just curious.

   To the OP, I'd say that base shoe is a matter of personal preference.  As others have stated, a good trim carpenter can scribe the base to match the floor level, so a base shoe is not really necessary from a functional perspective.

   However, in my opinion, lack of a base shoe gives a more modern appearance.  If the client/HO prefers a vintage or period feel, then I recommend using base shoe.

1. 
   Geoffrey | Oct 28, 2006 11:28pm | #24

   as I said, in the old days! :), just kidding, in New England around the 1910's or 1920's, usually after the use of sheetrock started and the old horse-hair plaster fell out of use, they used to use the base as a way to end the plaster rather than just go to the floor like they do w/veneer plaster over blue-board today, since todays veneer is so thin compared to the old style plaster system, which was thicker. The plinth blocks were typically thick enough to allow the shoe to butt to it.

                                                                                             Geoff

1. 
   Ragnar17 | Oct 30, 2006 02:02am | #25

   Geoffrey,

   I'm still not sure I'm following this.  Are you saying they used to take a piece of finish lumber (say 1/2" x 7-1/4") and nail it directly to the studs BEFORE the plaster work was done?  And, related to this, are you saying they used some sort of plaster board with top coat method (as opposed to lath and plaster)?

   Would the baseboard then be flush with the face of the finish plaster?  If so, I assume they'd apply the door casings (and/or plinths) OVER the baseboard, right?

   Sort of interesting approach.  Of course, you wouldn't be able to install any base caps (for added visual detail), but that's not the end of the world.

   Out on the west coast (where I work), lath and plaster was still being applied on the entire wall BEFORE any finish trim went on.  (This would be in the 1900 - 1930s time period.)

    

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 30, 2006 04:26am | #34

   here< the plaster was on wood laathe> the base was three quarter by seven set on half inch blocks> the base cap covvered the base of the plaster which ended at the baseboard 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   Geoffrey | Oct 31, 2006 02:32am | #35

    Hey Ragnar, yes on the base installed 1st but it was thicker(7/8") and installed over the lathing, then the plaster. The "plaster board" reference is to the current method which uses blueboard and a skim coat (veneer) plaster.

    The base was then proud of the wall finish leaving an edge to install base cap.  See piffin's post

                                Geoff

3. 
   FrankDuVal | Oct 31, 2006 03:44pm | #37

   In the 1910 era apartments I'm working on, it seems a 1 x 2 was nailed to the studs where the top of the baseboard would be, then the baseboard was nailed to that. The studs were then covered with the wood lath, followed by the various coats of plaster. The base cap was nailed through to the 1 x 2. Or maybe the base was nailed to the 1 x 2 after the plaster was finished...Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

4. 
   Piffin | Oct 31, 2006 08:29pm | #40

   i've seen similar. Two one bys run top and bottom of base with a channel between and wire run there to receptacles in the base. The one by became a 'land' for smoothing the plaster to apparantly. Same thing at casings around windows and doors. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   FrankDuVal | Oct 31, 2006 03:39pm | #36

   Thanks, Geoffrey, for the description. It explains the plaster wall construction in the 1910 era apartments I'm working on.Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

2. 
   housenut1 | Oct 30, 2006 03:41am | #33

   Thanks Geoff for the background info too.

7. 
   JDRHI | Oct 31, 2006 04:04pm | #38

   Unless required....to hide flooring gap.....it's a matter of personal preferences.

   I personally don't care for the look of traditional baseboard without a shoe moulding. Not only does it give it a modern appearance, it looks incomplete to me.

   Then again...a more contemporary baseboard......3 1/2" clamshell or colonial....looks ridiculous to my eye when it includes a shoe.

   J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements