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The other day, I was remenessing (up) about my career in construction when I recalled a comment one of my very first bosses said to me. We were talking a little keeper than normal and the subject of race came up. He said on a personal level, he would have no problem hiring an African American to work for him, but the prevailing social attitudes of the community dictates that he cannot. The fact is, he said, is that many home ownerss would simply not want anAfricannAmericann working on or in their home. We live in an almost exclusively white extremely conservative area in upperMichigann so the issue had never really come up with him before. He was a very nice old man who never so much as raised his voice at me, and certainly didn’t strike me as a cardcaring member of the KKK.
I think he was simply an established business man who was afraid of rocking the boat in such a small community.
I would like to know if anyone else has run into this problem, and if they have any ideas on how to remedy it.
I know this is a touchy issue, and I certainly don’t want to come across as racist, but it’s been bugging me for a long time and I would like to know what other think.
Your responses are appriciated
Alan Parkman
Replies
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Sounds like for him to hire a black (the first in the community?) would be like the first woman at the fire department, the first Catholic president, etc. All kinds of assumptions and fears would come up. If the black guy steals a tool, the women can't lift something, or if Kennedy had adopted a particular Catholic policy, everyone would say, "I told you so." Whereas if you hire some white trash, or a big guy who can't lift something, or our current protestant president restricts abortions, they are judged as individuals.
How unfortunate that for things to go well, the first black, woman, gay, diabled, etc. has to be perfect in order to fit in. What a burden for someone who ought to just be able to do a good day's work for a day's pay without getting crap for it.
It's a pity that he probably was making a reasonable business decision. Doing the right thing might risk a bad reputation. Why doesn't the contractor who shows up with all white guys (in a diverse area) not get run off a sexist racist?
Doesn't sound like a great place to live, like Forsyth County, Georgia. I've opted to either live in more tolerant places (Berkeley/Richmond, CA; Seattle) or work towards tolerence where needed (PFLAG, Women's Center, etc). -David
*Alan-Interesting question, makes me think.To me race, sex, sexual orientation, relgion are of no consequence, I set the bar to a certain level and as long as everyone achieves that level, and leaves the rest of their personal/socio-economic issues at home or the bar no problems. I do not and will not lower the level I expect for anyone at any time! I have been blessed enough to work with just about evey race I can think of, and learned from all of them. The problem I usually see (luckly not first hand yet...knock on wood, check with my lawyer) arises in diciplinary actions.Example.. you hire a minority, he/she turns out to be a terrible employee, unmotivated, careless, in need of constant suppervision. Now you fire him/her like you would any other, and get sued because he/she claims racial/sexual discrimination, SUCKS huh! If you had done this to Joe Blow white guy no problem. There are in this country at least 2 standards, and I promise you as a white hetero male mine is the higher more costly one.I have never had a personal problem with someone based on race seems kinda shallow and narrow minded to me, people are all different. We have to look at all the pros and cons when hiring anyone but particularly when their race, sex, sexual orientation, or relgion differs from that of your or the public norm.Sucks to work in a law suit happy timeWTN
*A lot of people have worked long and hard to find that remedy. Whoever succeeds will become very famous.Meanwhile, there's something about changing the world one person at a time starting with guess who.
*This has been on my mind for a long time too. I haven't worked on large commercial jobs, but the idea I get is that large commercial crews hire a greater diversity of people than smaller crews and residential outfits do. In a way this is obvious and makes sense. At least in Seattle, I feel like the crews are more segregated the smaller they are. So the percent numbers of whites, blacks, men, women etc. still might be the same like commercial crews but all the white guys are in this company, all the black guys in this, all the latinos in this, all the women in this, etc. I guess this makes sense too. Especially in my neighborhood it's so striking how you'll see all black remodeling crews, and in another part of town, all white. I don't imagine it's been much different ever.I've wondered if anyone has written a good book or article with good numbers about this. George
*We recently had to fire a black employee and heard some rumors about the threat of a suit but it turned out that it was just another story, the last in a long line from this guy.As far as customers dictating who we hire, this is not restricted to race, sex or religion. The customer may just have a feeling about a particular employee's attitude, appearance, intelligence or competence. We expect our employees to be properly respectful to the customers but beyond that they only need to do their jobs. We have had to tell customers that if they wish to hire us, we are the ones who dictate who works on the job. If they are not happy with that arrangement, they do not want us to do the work. That is their prerogative. We have never had a customer take it any further and the loyalty that you gain from your employees will pay you back many times over.
*I wonder if any of those all-white wealthy people would mind if it were black slave labor working in their home, they certainly didn't mind during the slavery era. But I'm not so sure that it is the white clients that are the ones who object or if the man wasn't just using that as a means of shifting the blame.
*Our crew has a variety of people with different ethnic, social and religious backgrounds.So far, there hasn't been any problem that I can see within the crew or with clients. My only concern is a language barrier. If I can't communicate with someone, it just won't work.Ed.
*I had a black guy working for me who was a hard worker, nice guy, really wanted to do everything perfectly, but had a temper. In our job, there were constant "emergencies" and unexpected problems that seemed to demand our attention all day long and often kept us from the work we were trying to do. This really made him feel off balance and sometimes he'd explode on me or on someone else.I knew him well enough to know it would just blow over and that in ten minutes he'd earnestly apologize for exploding, he did this at least once a day.He was normally a great guy, I liked him and treated him well, even gave him alot of breaks that I probably shouldn't have given and went to bat for him a bunch of times because of his temper.Then one day in a fit of anger, he started rambling under his breath about working like a slave, picking cotton, the plantation, the taskmaster, etc. Scared the crap out of me. I realized then how much power "racism" really gave him over my job in our oversensative society. I'm not sure he even realized how much he could have hurt me.I wasn't sure what to do but knew that if left unchecked, he could hurt my job so I told him that I had given him more breaks than anybody else on the crew, I treated him like a friend and if he was planning on playing the race card, he could pack his things right now.He aplogized and it never came up again but I went home with my heart pumping.
*Alan,Whatever your bosses motives were, I think he was wrong. Most of the customers (even if racist) wouldn't have minded an African American working on their house. A few would've had problems if they had to talk to the African American person, and a select few might have used a different contractor because of it. But most of the community wouldn't have cared if the guy was just there doing a job and then left.Rich Beckman
*About 15 years ago I had the unique opportunity to be able to promote a black man to the position of first shift supervisor. This was in a manufacturing plant in Georgia. This man, who had a prison record and ha d spent most of his life doing manual labor, was one of the hardest working people I had ever worked with and over the years I worked with him I learned to respect his opinion and admire his innate ability to deal with his co-workers.When the opportunity presented itself, I called him in to my office and told him he had the supervisor job. He was shocked and he asked me if he knew what I was doing. I said probably not, but he was the man for the job and he better not let me down,Long story short... he did an outstanding job, but the rest of the company (and that part of the country I suppose) was not as open-minded as one might have hoped. Turns out that there are some things more important than making money to some people. I know that this man, who wanted nothing more than to do a good job, caught a tremendous amount of crap from other supervisors (peers supposedly)and other black employees (uncle tom BS). He did not last very much longer than I did.That's right, after I promoted the first black supervisor in this company's history, I found myself no longer welcome at certain company events, etc. Eventually I got disgusted and left the company. As I was leaving, this man came up to me and expressed his gratitude for what I had done for him. He knew he was about to get demoted or worse. I told him that I had no regrets and that he should try to find another company that could use his talents.I still work in the same part of the country and I can tell you that, for the most part, racial issues are improving every day. We still have a long way to go, so every one of us has to ask themselves if they are going to be part of the solution or part of the problem. There ain't no in-between.Kurt
*Your quality of mind and spirit that enabled you to face danger, fear, and vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution is admirable Kurt! This intangible is what sets you appart from the old man above, my hats off to you, for not only being in a possition to make a difference but having the balls to do so.Dan
*From a gender, not a racial, persepective:I worked for the Forest Service for several years as a seasonal employee, mostly to our mutual benefit. I did play the EEO card one time when i got hired in timber for a GS-9 who resented being assigned someone whose skin was the wrong shape. On the fourth day, he fired me for getting a truck stuck. (The driver was actually my male co-worker, who stood up for me.) I was pretty happy to be able to stand on the shoulders of those who went before me to look that throwback in the eye and say "Hell, no, i won't go."I too resent the claims of the marginally inconvenienced. This white male boss of mine went on to be investigated by the FBI for theft of gov't property, sued for "stress" and the gov't settled--he's now living well on your tax dollars.
*Alan, I'll bet you're in Traverse City, right?Anyhow, I think that a lot of resarch has been done on this subject, as George points out. Most people, concisouly or unconciously, will gravitate in social gatherings, work, and life in general towards people who are like them. That means interests, economic standing, and color. Things do change, and I think they are much better than they were even a few years ago.
*Some consideration has to be given to the previously mentioned "uncle tom" attitude that some blacks are obsessed with. There is a lot of peer pressure on a black person to not succeed, much as there is pressure on any white blue collar worker to not "kiss up". This is a major motivation for anyone subject to such an attitude to try and take advantage of the situation, or as the slang goes, take advantage of "the man". That attitude is translated into not showing up for work, stealing, mouthing off, etc.
*Lot of good stuff here. Race, gender, religion etc. are not attributes that make me more or less money and that is what hiring is to me, way to find someone whose talents can add to those I have. If any of these become a problem it is usually in the eyes of the beholder and not the employee. Where I live still teams with descrimination, the obvious and the subtle, but I have my principles which I have to live with and try to judge each individual on their merit and nothing else. Skip
*This is a great thread! It's amazing how conditioned people are and how sensitive they are about their social and gender differences. Recently, a woman called me for a job. I told her to come over and start working. She mentioned she was a lesbian and I said "fine!". Then she started getting insecure about the fact she wasn't as strong as a man, at which rate I told her that I needed surgeons not brutes... She is an excellent worker and a fine person and she fits nicely, does anything else really matter?fv
*i I needed surgeons not brutes...Still chuckling, FV... ;^)When i worked as a tree planter i asked about the all-women crews. The rationale was that stands restocked by female crews had far better survival rates than those men planted. On the other hand, the "brutes" did a far better job handling the augers!
*Being from the south, I have often heard Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. vilified for "the civil rights mess." And black leaders such as Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton have done little to really promote harmony between the races as they preach "entitlement." I've often heard parts of Dr. King's "I have a dream speech" and was always inspired by it. But until the other night I'd never heard the part where he admonished blacks to "be the best" at whatever they did if they ever wanted to have fully equal rights. Sadly, that part of his message seems to have been lost. But it applies to everyone, regardless of race or whatever.I think if we all strive to "be the best" and to expect the best and reward the best in others, then it all takes care of itself. I think too often we don't expect enough of ourselves or others, and we tolerate poor attitudes and poor work. Quite often, instead of being too judgemental, we judge too little, and allow others to "get along" when they should be "getting out." It's interesting that when I take someone to task for rendering poor service, I am looked on as a racist/biggot/asshole/etc.
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The other day, I was remenessing (up) about my career in construction when I recalled a comment one of my very first bosses said to me. We were talking a little keeper than normal and the subject of race came up. He said on a personal level, he would have no problem hiring an African American to work for him, but the prevailing social attitudes of the community dictates that he cannot. The fact is, he said, is that many home ownerss would simply not want anAfricannAmericann working on or in their home. We live in an almost exclusively white extremely conservative area in upperMichigann so the issue had never really come up with him before. He was a very nice old man who never so much as raised his voice at me, and certainly didn't strike me as a cardcaring member of the KKK.
I think he was simply an established business man who was afraid of rocking the boat in such a small community.
I would like to know if anyone else has run into this problem, and if they have any ideas on how to remedy it.
I know this is a touchy issue, and I certainly don't want to come across as racist, but it's been bugging me for a long time and I would like to know what other think.
Your responses are appriciated
Alan Parkman