Was in pawn broker over the weekend with the DW, she was looking for some odds and ends so I browsed a bit. Spotted a PC 4 x 24 belt sander marked at $200 CDN (about $150 US). Looked to be in near new condition, I test ran it, no bad smells or sounds. So on the strength of some encouragement from DW and some extra cash from a recently completed side job, I bought it. Smokin deal, half the price of new. Runs like a bomb, takes off material real fast and even. No problem, right?
But I still figure that, despite the rules pawnshops have to follow, there’s a chance that the thing was stolen and pawned to finance, shall we say, substance purchases. Normally I steer clear of these places because I don’t want to perpetuate a market for the thieves and crackheads. But in the face of such a bargain, I weakened and bought the thing. What do you guys think? Is this an ethical purchase?
Wally
Replies
Nope.... your gut doesn't lie.
Granted, there are probably a select few pawnbrokers out there who run a legitimate business.... but even still. I'm sure that someone desperate enough would kick in the necessary identification needed to sell a stolen item on the chance that nobody will ever check.
Pawnshops feed off desperate people. Desperate people tend to put morals aside in favor of survival. If nothing else, the pawnbrokers are getting rich off of desperate people. Even on the off chance that the item wasn't hot, somebody sold that thing for a song because they needed the money badly enough for something else. It's just a bad cycle. Not good Karma at all.
Here in Columbia, I have no problem buying from pawn shops. Every thing they intake is reported to the PD each week.
The PD runs all shops stuff thru a data base.
SamT
That's good to hear Sam, I wish the shops around here were as trustworthy. I still think that pawnshops prey on desperate folks though. Can't imagine why anyone would sell a belt sander for such short money when the could have got twice as much through a Want-Ad or local classifed ad or even E-bay.
The people who would sell it for short money are the same folks who would rent a house for $400/month that they could BUY for $350/month. The same folks who frequent 'check into cash' places that charge outrageous fees and rates. The same folks who use their 'overdraft privilege' at their bank like its free money (even though they get charge $10-30 per overdraft). They don't mind paying $3.50 per ATM visit, and will hit the ATM several times a week. They don't mind paying 10-20% interest on car loans (as long as they can drive a nice car). Want ads and eBay are all well and good, but they are NOT good for fast cash. There is no shortage of such people. Just because we put a high value on our toys (ooops, I meant "tools") doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. Some people would much rather have $20 today rather than $50 next week.
So my guess would be 50-50 on whether its hot or just a stupid person.
In this case the sander was purchased in a legal manner, so he shouldn't feel any guilt over it. If someone stole it, then the thief should feel guilt, not the guy who legally buys it at a pawn shop. Not like he bought it out the back of someone's car or out the back of someone's garage. Of course we're assuming it doesn't have a tag on it somewhere saying: "Property of..." ;)
If you can find a bargain, then good for you! Darn hard to afford the tools to make a living, and there's no room for guilt.
OK, this soapbox is creaking, so I guess I'll get off of it.
jt8
You make some good points about the kind of people who frequent pawn shops. In this day and age of instant credit reports, those without good credit get to face the gauntlet of 'predatory lenders' where annual fees on loans whether they be pawnshop rates, payday loans, or the worst of the worst, car title pawn brokers can run as high as 400% interest yearly. Once caught up in the cycle, it becomes part of the management, er, mismanagement of their personal finances. It's a one way ticket to failure.
I've done a lot of business with pawn shops in the past and did so to my own detriment. For all the good deals I found through the years, I came out on the short end. It was my choice and one I ultimately paid for in the loss of everything I had worked hard to acquire. Now that I'm starting over, I'm still willing to occasionally buy at a pawnshop but no more 'loans' where I put my tools at risk. If I can't pay for it in cash, I don't need it.
By the way, most pawn shops I've dealt with were totally on the up and up because they had to report the items they loan against or buy with the police department. Having a list of tools with serial and model numbers along with each tool's receipt in a file is one way to assure if an item shows up in a pawn shop can be reported and tracked by law enforcement. I go another step and use a fine tipped center punch to put permanent marks in discreet places on the tools that I include in the master list of my equipment. It's not a perfect solution but I can identify my tools with 100% certainty...
Do you really like to know what I think?
I think that you cover all the answers to all of your questions.
If someone call you a second hand thief, you will find even more answers.
And then he will be upset why he don't find the steal before you.
What I think here is... don't tell, don't ask questions.
What else do they have there?
YCF Dino
Hey Dino , good point. Ya just can't argue with your guts--Second hand thief- I like that. Must admit have gottin a few of my tools from a second hand store. He only deals in tools-no gutiars or jewelery. I have know dave 4-5 years now and he is square guy . I can walk out with a clear mind and a calm gut because I have sold some of my tools to him.
Who wants to run a add and answer the phone over a 80 dollar Roto-zip or whatever.
Ok thats my take on it but as said before " Guts don't lie" Mike
ok this one i have to hype in on
In TN all pawnshops are required to be
a. connected to the police dept by computer
b. get a thumb print of the person pawning any item and the person must have ID most pawn shops now take a digital picture of the person pawning it with the item
c. give an accurate description including all markings and ser # if the item has a missing ser# then they can not pawn it...
all this is reported to the police everyday...
a pawn is a LOAN and most pawn shops prefer the item be picked up by the person pawning the item... it is the second oldest business known the first being selling sex... but then the guy buy'n the sex might have borrowed the money so who knows...
I being a bonded insured federal firearms dealer and pawn broker and past president of the pawnbrokers ####.
who in 14 yrs have'n had less than 20 items (20 of 10's of thousands) show as stolen and i'd say of the 20 at least half were where a kid stole from parent...
we have simple rules
if it's an instrument... you better be able to play it
if it's a tool... u better know what it is and how it's used
jewlery... u need to know what you have before we believe it's yours...
very little thats stolen around here and i know our laws are stronger than most states ends up in a pawnshop... most ends up at the crack house
what i do have a problem with is second hand stores... music stores...jewelery stores, and scrap metal dealers not have'n to follow the same rules as pawnbrokers... I've had over 200k worth of ac units stripped of copper just this year and sold for scrap... just this week i've had metal stolen off my jobsite and sold for scrap (parts of my building) even had the gutter stolen off one building ...
now maybe where you are it might be different but here most pawnbrokers have been in business for many many years and the last thing they want is anything stolen...
as to who uses pawnshops? you'd be surprised I've made loans to sports superstars, music stars, people who i knew had way more money than i'd ever have... i can't explain the exact why... but if you need short term money now without have'n to face your banker... maybe you can't draw against a job and have to pay your guys TODAY ? i've made loans on watches and even backhoes just for that... maybe lost too much at the casino and don't want your wife to know... have many people pawn guns in the summer just so they'd be safe in our vault... one riverboat capt keeps his family silver in pawn so his own family won't steal it while he's gone...
some loans that make me sick... people pawning brand new stuff they charged at the advice of their lawyer just to pay him so that they could file chapter 7.... parents pawning stuff to get kids out of jail... moms pawning stuff to feed the kids...
as one lady told me ( i knew her family and knew they'd help if she asked) she said "why should i ask my family for money when i have things of value i can live without, I take care of my own business"
I sold out all but one of my stores to a national company several years ago and they are listed on the stock exchange ... I have little to do with the operation of even the one store i have left... i just lost interest in the business and being inside all day... but most pawn shops now do most of their sales on ebay just to keep from dealing with people offering $10 for a $200 saw... as a rule of thumb... most pawnbrokers loan about half what they think they can sell an item for if it's not redeemed... Our big thing was let'n people know we'd make loans on stuff that we liked and knew about... Guitars, harleys, (any motorcycle jetski or construction equipment) if it had a title we liked it... airplanes are always cool too...
around here your stereotype of the pawnbroker is dead wrong... buy away and feel no more guilt than you would at an estate or carport sale...
pony
Hey Mike. You know what they say: Is nothing like a good deal.
Some others say: Is nothing like a good steal.
Seeyou. YCF Dino
Speaking of a steal---Have I got a steal-I mean a deal -for you .
For sale -recip. saw Some minor wear and tear to include but not limited to : Cut cord -----Blade tang broke off it clamp neck---Varible speed not so variable anymore---Some minor grease leakage (but only after heavy use) Like 5 or 10 minutes straight for example.
Deal includes metal case with ugly green paint and a free crow bar to assist in case opening.
Give me asking price and I'll ship it for free.
Only one available so better get while the gettin' good
Mike
Now that sounds like the kinda stuff we have in the pawn shops around here. They'd probably be asking $20 or more for it.
jt8
As Larry the Cable Guy would say " Now that funny--I don't care who you are" followed by Git-r-done which I can't remember if Larry said or if it was the foreman. LOL Mike
It's mine you prick..........it's grey right??
Where are you ? I'm commin to get my sander back.........
Eric
Every once in a while, something goes right!
It's mine.
Please send to me immediately at.......
it's mine fair and square ...
I stole it outta firebirds truck ...
then sold it to Boob ...
went back later and stole it outta his garage ...
and pawned it ...
fair and square.
so it's mine.
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
is that ethical??Every once in a while, something goes right!
I found two of my tools that had been stolen at ####pawnshop.
The only way I could get them back was to pay for them even though they were clearly marked with my name.The pawnshop owner offered me 50 % off in front of the cop I brought in.They did not take proper ID and did not suffer any consequence atall. The rules in place are written to protect the pawnshop not the consumer or victim .
My only recourse would be to take them to court myself. The cop said it would be highly unlikely I would get any thing out of it and I would likely have to pay for the pawnshop legal fees if I lost.
Now could you please take your nice sander and throw it through the front window of the pawnshop and shop somewhere else.Maybe it will be good karma eh?
...............Rik.............
Dang, are the pawn shop owners running the world there or something? You must be somewhere in Canada. Hereabouts if you can prove its yours and are willing to report it as stolen, the pawn shop is SOL. Their best hope is to pretend they never got it (or sold it before you came back with the cop).
Hmm, and usually the pawn shops around here just have junk. Wonder if there's a connection?
jt8
It sounds like your cop was on the take. If you could prove it was yours he should have confiscated the item because it was stolen property
Apparently my name is not that uncommon and I "could have come in earlier and scratched my name on the tools".....really...
They were a now an empty homemade toolbox and a handsaw , non of the powertools with documented serial numbers surfaced. I still have the case file with the list of tools stolen with descriptions. It took a year and a half for the saw and box to show up in the pawnshop. They were the dregs of a$3000 tool haul.
This was in 1985 in the days that I was usually full of piss and vinager and occasionally sporting a multihued mohawk..... for some reason I didn't command too much respect back then.. hmmm ............Rik..........
In defense of PS items, I have unloaded not so usefull tools just to get rid of it to a 'stranger" not a friend or coworker..
a Porter cable roofing gun comes to mind...a real POS..just dumped it after a job..I figgure it was still cheaper than rent, and I found out what not to buy. I got 75% of my money back after using it for 4 mos.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
My plumber never sold a tool in his life,but he got a tip
about some of his (ripped off)stuff being sold at a pawn brokers
... went in...found his stuff...dumped it on the front desk..
asked for the owner / manager.....dialed 911 on his cell....
said "put it in my pickup, or I call the cops"....
they put it in his truck....he is built like Gov. Arnold S. though.....
here's a good "karma" story for ya ...
many years ago ... younger and dumber ...
I ran into a guy I knew from HS ....
he stopped by a jobsite with "his old tools" ...
I knew they weren't his ...
even thought I knew it was wrong ... I bought a cheap sears buffer from him ...
day or so later ... he "found" a table saw ...
this time I still knew better ... plus actually felt bad about the first purchase ... said No Thanks ...
he asked for a ride up town ... I was heading out for lunch ... said sure.
The next day ... go out to the truck ... see the faceplate of the radio was crooked ... and my big bottle of change I'd been filling up for about a year was gone. Last one I cashed in was worth about $100.
Then ... after checking ... saw the pass side vent window lock ... was unlocked.
I never unlocked it ... and the last person to ride shot gun ... aside from him .. for the last coupla months ... was my Dad. I was prety sure my Dad didn't steal my change!
The scumbag ... who I knew was a scumbag ... unlocked the window .. and came back to let himself in.
I was pissed ... but figured I kinda had it coming ....
if I said No the first time .... he wouldn't have stopped back. If he doesn't stop back ... no ride uptown ... no unlocked window ... blah blah blah ...
That $20 buffer I never used cost me about $100!
I learned what I already knew ....
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Ay yep.
In my experience most thieves go from jobsite to jobsite or hang out around the parking lots at Home depot. Pawn shops don't give them enough for the merchandise, generally speaking. Ethically, I think that you are on rather safe ground. Even if you bought it on Ebay, there's no guarantee as to whether the item is legit.
I can only say that if a deal is too good to be true, then it generally is. There's lots of cheap, relabeled tools out there that are a ripoff. There's also some real deals to be had that are on the up and up. I tend to buy new from a store most of the time and buy from the Net every once in a while. Your gut feeling is the most important.
Since you are obviously concerned about the ethics of it all, you are probably right in your decisions most of the time. I hope that most people refuse to buy from obvious thieves and deprive them of a market.
Best wishes, Neil
I don't think it's fair to lump ALL pawn shops into one catagory.
I had a co-worker tell me a couple of years back that he had carted a bunch of his old tools to a pawn shop and sold them. I almost died when he said he'd sold his 3/4" socket set to them for $50. He said he didn't think anyone used stuff that big anymore. But I've sen them go for $300 at farm sales.
So not all tools at all pawn shops are stolen. If you didn't do anything wrong I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
Anyone who says that gratuitous sex is no substitute for gratuitous violence obviously hasn't had enough gratuitous sex. [Geoff Spear]
Like you I live in B.C. too.
99% of the pawn shops are not legit....
I have been ripped off WAY to often.....
Hell Vancouver is the the smash and grab capitol of N. America.....
I am not looking forward to the day I find someone with some of my
stolen tools...because I am a shoot first ask later kind of person....
never had a bet sander grow legs though..lol
Back in 1999 I was on a big project in Pontiac Michigan. I found two used tool stores nearby called "Retool". They were great, nothing but used tools, from a simple screwdriver to lathes. While I was in one of them one night after work another fellow was looking at their electric drills. He joted down serial numbers and loudly announced to the clerk that two Hilti units had been reported as stolen. He called the police and told the clerk not to sell or remove the Hilti drills. He was the Hilti representative, a real get-in-your-face guy. I left before the end of that episode but I have a peace of mind knowing if my Hilti gun ever gets stolen I may get it back. All my other stuff would probably be lost forever.
Those two stores seemed completely reputable and honest. They required anyone selling anything to provide a drivers license. As careful as they were they still got stung.
Well hopefully they managed to trace the stolen tool back to the dufus who stole it. We have a Retool store here. I've been through it a couple times, but haven't bought anything from there yet. Typically when I see something I like, I start thinking, "well if I'm really gonna use this a lot, for a bit more I can just buy it new."
But I still go in there. Eventually I'll buy something. I'm guessing it will be one of those tools that it would be nice to have, but I wouldn't use much, so why pay new prices.
I went to a contractor's going out of business auction a couple weeks back. All big name stuff. The tools had obviously seen use, but they were selling them all as in good working condition. It was running about 50% new value.
jt8
Edited 9/23/2004 9:24 am ET by JohnT8