Yes, as of 8:19 I did my P&L for the quarter and the year and X’ed out QB for good.
JPC is now officially closed. A combination of lack of work, employee woes, and changing interests (I had become complacent and bored with framing) contributed to our close.
Currently I am framing for my old boss as an employee. I’m still pursuing my possible career in LE; I’ve interviewed for one agency. I have been offered the job of lead carpenter for my boss’s co., but until I know one way or the other about this LE job, it’s a no-go.
If any small jobs come up, I’ll still do them, but only for cash (yeah I know that pisses a lot of you off…sorry). I still have a current license, and my insurance and WC is good thru Feb., and I’ll still charge my higher than average rates for my work.
I’ll be disposing of a lot of my tools and equipment (two trailers and a TON of framing tools–email me if interested in buying).
This has been a sad couple of hours; closing accounts, and just looking around my office at all the things that my short-lived company has provided me (in additon to all the good lifestyle it has given me in the past 3 years!).
As for a future JPC? It’s a very distant possibility; however I’ve always had my heart in this up til now, but until that warm & fuzzy feeling returns I’m afraid I cannot do my best work–and anything less than 100% isn’t good enough for me.
Not to worry though, I’ll still be around BT–you guys (and gals) have been WAAY to good to me over the years to just up and leave completely! LOL!
Replies
i know how you feel. when i closed my car bussiness down [5yrs ago]it was pretty sad and felt like i had failed. but after about 30 days and all the inventory was gone,it was such a relief and burden off my shoulders i couldn't believe it. i still question what happen as i have other friends in the bussiness that keep plugging along.but i'm glad now that i've moved on . good luck larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Well, it's about time you opened that new door.
Enjoy :)
SamT
Now if I could just remember that I am a businessman with a hammer and not a craftsman with a business....."anonymous". . .segundo
sorry to hear about that
shot you an email.
tell me about your trailers when you respond
Friends help you move.
Real friends help you move bodies!
Sad to hear, it seemed you were doing quite well.
If you're selling any good coilers let me know.
Sorry to hear that man. I don't know what else to say right now.
Expert since 10 a.m.
http://www.hay98.com/
Well, it's not a bad thing to know when to fold 'em. I got fired three times before realizing i have no talent for obeying orders. Before doing woodwork for 20 years, i'd never kept a job longer than 8 months, even though i tried a LOT of them.
You'll find what you need. You've got that drive and you've got age on your side. Fair winds...
Good luck and as was said , best winds.
Tim
Good luck in your new ventures.
Going from memory from back at Laurel, you have significant talent for drywall finishing.
(-:
BTW - What's this "LE" thing you're talking about?
I would guess "Law Enforcement".
I thought it was Libido Enhancement..."And the Grinch, with his Grinch-feet ice cold in the snow, stood puzzling and puzzling, how could it be so?
It came without ribbons. It came without tags. It came without packages, boxes or bags.
And he puzzled and puzzled 'till his puzzler was sore.
Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before! Maybe Christmas, he thought, doesn't come from a store.
Maybe Christmas... perhaps... means a little bit more!â€â€œAnd then the true meaning of Christmas came through, and the Grinch found the strength of ten Grinches plus two. “
Max Rules!!!
LOL--"Libido Enhancement" ;-)
Believe me, it would be great to work with someone like Diesel or Tim U, but my wife ain't leavin' her job, and I don't blame her! I dunno if I could take that cold weather anyway LOL.
Yes currently I've applied to one state and two local police agencies and I've been interviewed by one of them--from what I hear (I go to church with this Chief) it looks promising. I made the decision to try to get into LE after shooting down the idea of re-enlisting into the military...I was >< this close to signing, but I realized we would have to put having a family on hold. Also, I could never be what I really wanted to be due to my almost-flat feet. Hopefully LE will give me a whole new set of challenges, not to mention it has been key to getting back in shape. I've also all but given up booze since Memphest (had to go out with a bang you know ;-) and this off-time has let me start some new hobbies and becoming involved in church.
Although it's been difficult going from top of the world back to average joe, the only thing I really miss about the business was the money--and that's pretty trivial in the swing of things. It's been nice being able to leave work at the jobsite and not having the hassles. All in all, it's no big deal; just an adjustment.
Im gonna tell you what an old one told me when I was young.
All youre gonna get out of this is a bunch of wore out tools and a wore out back. There will come a time when you will have wished you hadnt even heard of the trades. Thats when you will be having trouble doing them cause you are too damn old but not old enough to retire. Even if you make it till retirement doing it SS is all the payday there is unless you pay into your own retirement fund and keep it going from your young age till its time . Most people dont do it .
Ill add that I know too many carps that went down before their time and had nothing to fall back on except disablilty SS. Its not enough. You slip one time and you might hurt to feed your family for the next 40 yrs suffering from an injury.
Pick a job that has benifits and a retirement . You will be ahead of what you were doing . You will sleep well knowing you have major medical coveered and WC if somthig happens . Buy an extra insurance too that will cover what major medical wont . People are ruined every day over medical reasons.
Tim
Tim-
I've heard your thoughts before from others - about how hard it is to make good money, pay the bills and put something away, etc.
I will respectfully disagree, somewhat with your cynicism. There is a lot of money to be made with hard work and good customer service. There are men like Diesel and Mike Smith and Hazlett that are doing fine and don't complain. These three may be exceptional carpenters and workers , but the truth is that there are many others out there who do good work, and get paid for it.
Carpentry skills are important, so are people skills and business skills. People skills are important whether you are an employee or an owner. Business skills less so. I see too many people in the trades that just don't bother planning for the future. If they make $1,000/week, they spend $1,000/week - or more. How many people in the trades have the opportunity to pay into Social Security, but don't because they would rather have the cash? Then when they spend the cash, they are SOL.
Sure there are instances where people get severely, permanently hurt, and they are the exception, not the rule. More often, IMO, where people have no money, a large percentage of the fault lies in the individuals and their lack of effort, not the job itself. There are more than a few stories of people that earned minimum wage and through their own efforts became rich.
I wish Jason well, whichever career he pursues. He's young and can afford to change his path now. Good for him. But there are also people out there that love what they do, make money at it and do it well.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
You need to read the post again.
You cant disagree with the truth can you ?
Mike Smith has nothing to do with the statements I made . Or anyone else named.
Did you think before you wrote that or did you not read what I wrote?
We could run a pol thread if you would like how many carps here have major medical , paid retirement , paid holidays , WC, Paid vacations, etc.
How many carps here own their own home ? Im talking paid in full.
How many carps here can write a check for a new vehicle for their wife? Can they also write a check for their work vehicle replacement ?
Most of the disabled carps are not here but ask the rest here how many know ? Mike Smith knows one . How come Barry isnt doing his metal work anymore ? Why dont you ask Barry how successful he is today? How come Mike bought his tools? You call that cynicism? Its the truth. While you are at it ask Barry how much hes drawing from his retirement fund from metal work.
I grew up in the trades . Ive seen it all my life because the carps came to my house for paychecks when I was only old enough to know why they were there. Ive seen them retire over and over and over . I know how they live . I know what they drive . Too many carps end up poor men. At least they have decided to live poor I guess huh?
There again there are successful people playing any sport and many failures. There are several successful contractors but theres a hundred to 1 that bite the dust compared to them. Ive seen them come and go all my life. How many football players does it take to get a pro football player ? Yes there are success stories every where but failures arent printed unless they have been successfull first.
Carps dont talk like people that worked for a major company about retirement .
If you want to believe theres a Santa Clause , thats up to you .
Tim
How many carps here can write a check for a new vehicle for their wife? Can they also write a check for their work vehicle replacement ?
Why would anyone want to do that?
Why would anyone want to do that?
Really the question should have been how many have the bottom line to be able to do it .
Tim
even if you did have the money why would you liquidate your cash assets like that? there are more productive ways to leverage your money than to tie it all up in a vehicle.
say you have 50 grand in an account. you pay 30K for a fully loaded work van. now you are left with 20K and you hit a rough patch...what do you do... would be nice to have that 30K in the bank. would be a lot easier to be paying 400 a month on the van.
operating with a healthy credit line and cash on hand is an excellent way to ride the wave of business.
now granted your original point still stands...how many in this business have the smarts to be in any position to make good or bad decisions with 50K, 100K, 500K?
I agree with Tim, and through a series of events that I didn't really plan I have found myself ending up a lot like ponytl describes, which is fine, no complaints, or at least no one to blame but myself because when i had choices i gave the decisions some thought,
when i was young i asked friends and relatives what to do, at 13-14 was told by the people i trusted forget about college, get a trade.
as a young man with a fresh attitude i was on top of the world, the uniform of the day was shorts and tennis shoes, i had a dog and a radio, and i worked so hard that even if i missed 3 days when surf was good they would say thanks for coming back when i did.
but as things changed it got tougher and tougher to keep that fresh attitude, there can be some vicious cycles in construction, and i truly feel sorry for what is happening to jason , even though i don't know him personally i know just what it feels like to have the rug yanked out from under you. i mourn the loss of the attitude and the sense of loss that he will take with him. (he already talks about the warm fuzzy being gone) i know he will survive, but i think there is a scar. thats how it was for me.
Tim,
I don't disagree with you about the outcome of many who choose carpentry, but carpentry does have it own rewards. The satisfaction of building something (even though you may not be building retirement) is rewarding.
I became a carpenter in 1971 becasue I loved it. It created a situation where I could make some money while expressing the inner artist.....I am still in for the art, but have learned the business side and how to keep my head above water. If I won a multi-million dollar lottery I would still keep on building.
Being a business owner is not for everyone, and there are certainly more failures than successes. But, unlimited opportunities are out there for those with the right stuff.
I have been fortunate, moving from helper to carpenter to sub-contractor to contractor to custom homebuilder / home designer with developer aspirations that are taking shape. I am grateful and have no regrets.
tx
I didnt really mean at the time for what I wrote to be so negative because I didnt add the other things thats within a man or woman. There is satisfaction of personal achievements. A carpenter is a noble profession. It can be used to help people . Normally the trades bring pride within as tradesmen are a prideful bunch of folks that take wealth in what they know and can do. Often the reason why they dont take personal criticisim well or at least has been my experience working with them. That part is needed in them and I understand it .
We could go on and point out select ones here on the board that have been successfull including you. But a better question would be for you to think about all the ones in the trades you know that have failed and have had success . The result in question would be the ratio of them.
The other thing Pony mentioned;
Someone said one time a man chooses several different things to do in his life time before he settles on average. As he said , some things dont work and some things do. Then if hes successfull he still moves on thinking what hes doing doesnt quite match him personally or he simply wants to try somthing different and even sometimes those are very skillful people that can make those decisions. So it goes.
Ive seen many leave the trades over benifits .
Tim
Edited 12/29/2006 10:49 am by Mooney
Tim,
Yes, I understand. I think it is unfortunate the way many carpenters are treated...no benefits like health insurance, retirement plan, investment plan, paid holidays and vacation time. My super receives salary, perfomance bonuses, Christmas bonus, paid holidays, vacation time, company truck including fuel and maintinance, cell phone, laptop and the benefit of learning from someone experienced and interested in his ultimate success.
Of course, many carpenters were school goof offs like myself.....not that I was not smart, but my inclinations were more artsy, the way things work and I preferred the outdoors.
My folks would have paid for college, I tried but I could not sit still long enough to pay attention in class and study, and hated it when I did. I made choices myself, there is no one to blame for my difficulties and struggles. I considered it the school of hard knocks. Other opportunities were there, but the art of the craft was more attactive. One thing that got me through tough times was / is my love for what I do. Many people are not fortunate to work at something they love.
My sister was the opposite, she studied in high school, went to college and obtained a masters degree, graduating cum laude. It took her several years, but paid off with a great job and benefits.
I suffered through the school of hard knocks and the builder learing curve the long way up..... learning framing and then other steps as a contractor. In the long run I have worked myself into a postion where I make about three times my sisters salary. I have figured out how to provide health insurance, investments, a retirement plan, ect. for myself. Doing it my way is a difficult path, but it seems the main limit to my success and achievements is myself.
While many craftsmen struggle and are not successful in the way people generally define success, I have heard it said more than once that, before the .com boom, there were more self made millionaires with accomplishments through building than any other profession, including the medical profession.
When Hanibal was on the move and attempting to cross the Alps, I have heard that he said "We will find a way or we will make one." That is the kind of attitude that is necessary to be a successful carpenter / builder / developer / business owner.
I have also heard that the difference between a loser and a winner is that a winner is a loser that refuses to quit. People practise until they get it right, professional and those who excel in their field practise until they can not get it wrong.
Bkla, blah, blah. I got to get to work. : - )
Jason
I was going to mention this in the post I made to Mooney but I figured you'd get bored reading and not get to the part about you!
I've left the trades, came back to it, went on my own, back to working for someone else........ currently work for someone and love it, probably where I belong.
I dont consider any part of my career as a failure, but a learning experience. It took me time to find out where I feel the most comfortable in and thats where I'm at now.
Closing shop and going to work elsewhere is just another phase in your career. I think PonyT hit it right.
Good luck to you
Doug
Tim
I'm not going to pile on the Mooney pile but there are a few things that I wonder about in your coments.
We could run a pol thread if you would like how many carps here have major medical , paid retirement , paid holidays , WC, Paid vacations, etc.
How many carps here own their own home ? Im talking paid in full.
Everyone of the guys that I work with at the company I work for could answer that with a yes! The part in red is neither here nor there, its really not an issue.
How come Barry isnt doing his metal work anymore ?
If I remember correctly Barry was hurt in a motorcycle accident? At least I dont think it happened at work.
How would Barry be better off if he'd been delivering mail for the US Post Office?
I'm about the same age as you, I've been a factory worker, carpenter, cabinet maker and a few other things that are not relevent. I've seen just as many people as you and I cant say with any certainty that there is a direct corrolation to living without retirement/disability benifits to being in the trades. Plenty of places that offer them.
You say to take a job where benifits are offered, thats a good idea. Often times I see carps that work independantly or for companies where there are no benifits have a wife who works somewhere that does have the benies so that the family is covered.
None of this has anything to do with wheather one is covered for an unforeseable accident or the long term lose of a job, or the burned out body that doesnt function like it used to.
The decission to take care of your finances is made without regard to your job, working for ITT doesnt gaurentee that someone is finacially taken care of.
I'm guessing that if you had went to work for XYZ Corp. you'd still own rental property and live the life that you have. You are wired to think that way, had nothing to do with your occupation.
Carps dont talk like people that worked for a major company about retirement
I dissagree that carps, or other trade workers, dont talk like other people do. I cant tell you how many times I've had or heard discussions about retirement on the job. I know two plumbers that I'm very envious of because of there ability to have invested well and are looking at retirement at 55 with little or no change in life style. I might add that both of these guys live very well.
I'm sure that you've seen a boat load of guys that have no plans for there future, I've seen an equally big boat load of people like that. Some of them work in the trades, some of them have great jobs at large corporations, some of them have all the benifits in the world.
I know a husband and wife team that work at Quaker Oats, they probobly have 25 years in the place, they probably make over $20 an hour and have benifits to die for. They have always rented, new cars for the both of them every year, fancy boat, trips to Las Vegas all the time. Why is that? It wouldnt matter if they had jobs that paid them $100,000 a year, they'd still be in the same situation as they are now. It has more to do with there financial planning then there jobs.
I see many a trade worker that has planned for his future, just as I have seen factory workers, lawyers, doctors,..........
Its about choices and priorities.
And dont start on this "there aint no Santa Clause" thing, some of us still believe! <G>
Doug
Thats a lot to respond to . I probably wont catch it all.
"The part in red is neither here nor there, its really not an issue."
Depends on what age they are to me . Other than that you are right , but it needs done before retirement . With the skills of a carpenter its amazing how quick that can happen for them if they are paying attention. Its a benifit of being a carp in the first place . Im tryin to help here .
How would Barry be better off if he'd been delivering mail for the US Post Office?
He would have been set for a pension at his age. Makes no difference where it happened or how .
The rest of your post runs the same thing to me as I couldnt answer one part with out treading along the other . Not that you didnt say different things . OK?
Im not picking on the trades entirely as you are right , it could happen anywhere benifits are not present .
From the subject matter of the thread , we have a guy that was roofing for a living and turned to framing at a young age. Both cases hes working for him self .
My experience may be location as I only know about my area. I dont have a clue if what I know stands anywhere else . But Ill share what I know to answer.
Tradesman here dont have benifits and are most often robbed of them. Contractors work carps here as sub contractors here and by the hour plus bids. At anyrate they have to pay all of their SS and of course they pay their federal. They as a rule end up cheating so they dont pay very much SS. It works or it doesnt work as they get behind anyway. They get a letter saying they havent paid a suffcient amount in to SS.In the end it catches up with them and no time to do any thing different unless they had somthing else going on. You see as contractors making 12 bucks an hour they couldnt afford to do much else. I look at it as trapped in a system if they choose to stay. I dont see it changing when contractors and HOs are on the same path. If a contractor were to be legal they would get underbid easily. This is an example . I wont go into any more of it as I think Ive made my point . However , theres so much more to say in this area.
The difference between you and I; I feel most of the time people need to be taken care of instead of being in business . If not then they need some business education before they swim in deep water and be self starters with the smarts of business . I dont think 21 yrs old is a proper time for someone to be in business for themselves.
With an education they would know what it takes to operate so what they must turn in billable hours in accumulation of a year. They would be able to figgure their real cost of operation. This is one of the main reasons they fail. What we have is 21 yr old roofers that can put a roof on or what ever trade they can handle the work. Immediately when a contractor sees this they want them to be subs and almost they are forced into business . The money seems a lot better than wages and it is , but do they put back for everything they should ? Most of the time they dont . They start living better as you described. At least spending more money. They lose track till its time to pay in to the goverment , material bills , tool bills , or worse someone gets hurt on one of their jobs .
On the other and if the carp lets say worked for the union where every thing was taken care of for him and there was a pension plan , all he would have to do is concentrate on the work he was proficient doing. Its one thing for a tradesman to be good at his trade which often takes several years , its another to be pushed into business where hes not proficient .
The real odd thing to me is that when a tradesman gets pushed into business and they expand to the size that they are only a business man and not a tradesman any longer they have to switch professions . Then they might as well be opening an office door every morning and if they dont get it , they can fall very hard. So we have this subject that was a tradesman and over night a business man which hes had no training but they are playing on his money.
Well you know as well as I what you quit paying when times gets slow or money gets tight and you are having trouble making payments . Sometimes with out the knowledge of others that are really involved.
If on the other hand in many cases the person was working for a company with benifits none of the above would have happened. He would have had his insurance all along and retirement . Thats what happens to people that do the benifit job thing. They retire and live off the proceeds. What happens when there are no proceeds?
In a perfect world everyone would figgure their cost of operation with all benifits included and it would be a fair world. Thats where Santa comes from. The world is not fair although its legal most of the time and people confuse the two. Business is a big bad thing where there are goats out there trying to take your share of the proceeds. You have to look out for your self and your family because it isnt fair . Its actually a mean place to work.
The whole difference is realizing the game we are in and surviving it with a profit. That takes an education no 21 yr old should have to learn on his own. Still the industry is full of that age person. Theres several reasons why.
Tim
Tim
I think we are probably in agreement on a lot of the issues here!
That $12 an hour carp that is getting paid as a sub is as you suggest, not going to pay into SS or any savings, thats more his fault then anybody elses. Is that guy capable of getting the job at the factory or the profession that has all the beinies and retirement plans. I wish everybody had benifits but unfortunatly they dont, and that is going to cost all of us someday, but thats another thread.
Around here there isnt any $12 carps, that would be a helper at best, hopefully a youngster either learning or passing through.
Luckily around here a good carp can get benies with decent pay, an electrician or plumber get damn good money. I think the plumbers(union scale) are upwards of $28-30, with retirement and benies. This in a state that isnt all that expensive to live in, certainly not like Chicago or NY.
We have to compare apples to apples. The smart carpenter that has the knowledge/skill to earn top dollar also should have the mental capcity to think ahead, plan ahead, and that is where I belive that he/she is just as capable as setting up his or her retirement portfolio as anybody(see professional) else. Benifits and retirement plans are avaiable to us, and a lot of us get them.
I'm not sure if I know a carp that doesnt own his house, I'm sure there are some. I think the trades offer a good wage and benifits if your smart/good enough to get them.
Regarding Barry;
He would have been set for a pension at his age. Makes no difference where it happened or how .
I dont know if thats true! I worked at Amana Refrig. back in the early 90's for about 1 year, the most miserable year of my life! I was out hunting and fell and broke my back in 5 places. I recieved benifits for 13 weeks! Thats not all that long!
Thank God I recovered cause theres no way that I could have made it on the 13 weeks of pay.
Amana Refrig offers very good benies but getting hurt outside of work, which is the way that Barry got hurt, left me with very limited resources. I was fortunate in timing, just sold my house and bought one for back taxes so I was sitting good, not true of everybody, again, Thank God!
I would have qulified for SS if I would not have been able to go back to work, I'm guessing that would have been around $600 a month, certainly not very promissing. I would have been OK, I've been lucky in some of my planning but I wouldnt have been doing a lot of traveling!
I do agree that 21 is way to young to have/own your own business. Not impossible but very difficult since you havent been around long enough to pick up all the info that you need. Hell there are people on here in there 50's that still dont know it all, or even enough to run a business!
Tim, I know that your not knocking the profession(the trades) and some of your thoughts are limited to what your surroundings dictate. Thank God that that is not the way it is everywhere and I dont mean that in a negative way towards AR.
Unfortunatly there are a lot of people out there that dont get retirement packages and benifits. Thats not just the trades, look at the tellamarketers, waiters/waitresses.........the list could go on for a long time.
I believe you can do well in the trades, I see a lot of people doing it. I dont think that we are any different then any other group.
You think maybe your just getting to be a bitter old man! :)
Doug
You think maybe your just getting to be a bitter old man! :)
hahaha .
Actually , I was trying to help and it was misunderstood .
I ran a thread on one of the repos I look at and thought it would add information to the real deal of buying repos . I shot the pics and they looked like h^ll. It was a dirty filthy house that had lots of garbage in it and it needed a front porch and a dressed up roof line . Of course that would have called for a new roof. There was windows and a bathroom remodel plus a new kitchen install.
Im thinking I coulda bought the house for 18 grand . Today it would be worth 70 thousand fixed. 10 grand material investment . I showed the numbers that were exact in the thread and these may not be but they are close.
I tried to show the different options the house actually had for investment or to use as a home . The house framing and crawl space was solid as a rock except for a back porch that was too low to the ground that coulda been changed to a slab.
It was no big deal. It was a simple fix that would have taken mostly labor from a good all around carp. Do three of those and keep each of them two years as primary residence and you own your fourth house out right. Thats how a carp needs to own their own house to start . Its a start up plan to carp ownership that separates the folks who dont do that kinda work. Its a bennie .
No one really except diesel responded seriously and the rest that I remember joked about its looks . I guess most didnt respond after they saw the pics because it wasnt pretty but believe me it could have been.
Reverse the option to everyone else and figgure the purchase price of a shiny one all fixed up. Now figgure the interrest of 15, 20 and 30 year loans. Just the interrest at 8 percent on a 30 yr loan and you have the big difference . For some that type of loan will go right into retirement paying monthly payments.
All the young guys should be doing it every two years anyway for a lucrative retirement . Tax free gains. Doesnt seem anyone is listening . The thread fell on deaf ears. You are right again , they should have the sense to make decisions for their retirement. So I ask this quesion; What have they done since that thread ran? I can tell you what Ive done . Ive bought two properties since then and Im a broken down semi retired carp. If I had the go I had at 30 yrs old I would have done 6 in a row since then. If I can do it in the shape Im in anyone here can do it .
Tim
Edited 12/30/2006 1:00 am by Mooney
I did not see that thread, wish i did, In the 80s did one like that brokeeven after taxes and realtor, said i would keep the next one, Paid 30 grand,put in 30 8 years later worth 200 plus sub divided the land,another lot out of it is worth 100, BUT everyone else had nice toys while i was putting myextra money in it, Most all the carps i was in the union with own there own homes free and clear, For a time in the 80s we would give a few days to each other now and then to build our homes
Tim,
When did you post that thread???? I missed it, think I would have been very interested in it!!!
Thanx,
MattLive by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
Here I found it covered up by two mobiles I posted first then the house is below.
Anyway, a few had asked me about it so I did a sample run on what I actually do for part of my income . <G> Not too sweet looking with the pics.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=75762.1&maxT=4
Tim
Edited 12/30/2006 10:07 am by Mooney
Tim
I remember that thread, I read it with semi-enthusiasm! I was surprised that more people didnt read and follow up on it, hell were not talking about a group of techies here, theses guys on here are prime candidates for this kind of situation.
I've been down that road and to avoid getting traped in it again I stand back and watch.
Back in the hey-day of the 80's I owned or shared ownership in 14 houses, figured I'd be done working by the time I was 40! Well here I am in my 50's (thats early 50's) and I still own some property but no more being a landlord, you guys are special and I'm not, dont have it in me to do it anymore.
The late 80's came along and I couldnt rent these places out, couldnt even give them back to the people that were carrying the loans, they knew the economy stunk and they didnt want them either. Yes I over extended myself, didnt need to buy all the properties that I did, should have been more conservative but...........hind sight being what it is and all!
I agree with you that you can set yourself up pretty good with the fixer upppers, I still keep an eye out for the good deal. I'll jump all over one if I see the right one. I have a piece of property that I'm selling to a friend, its pretty run down and I dont know if he'll ever fix it up like he should be doing but the lot is worth the value that I have on loan so whatever he does with it is up to him. Thats probably not the attitude that I should have with regard to this place but I can worry myself to death on it and still not get anywhere so I just let him do what he wants with it. Its really not a whole lot of money and I'm pretty safe so..... I pretty much bought it just to sell to him so its a different circumstance then your typical fixer upper.
I think the attitude of a lot of younger people is that they have to get into something real nice to impress their friends and that fixer upper isnt going to do that for them, its a shame because they already have the knowledge to do the work, its money in the bank for them but..........
Anyway, gotta go, I have to go look at a house! We just moved back and I dont plan on renting for more then 6-8 months.
Doug
12 bucks a hour for a skilled tradesman aient squat. Even the illegals at the HD and Blowes ask for 10 bucks.
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A little update on my job sit.:
I talked to the chief of the agency I interviewed for today at church...he said I'm his recommendation, and that the city council will vote on it Tuesday. So I should know by then yea or nay.
Two things my friend had a lot of fun talking about in his academy training: pepper spraying and tazing each other. Not so much fun at the time, but he volunteered first both times (so he said).
Now we have to have a fest in Mobile now so we can all get, get out of jail free cards.
Expert since 10 a.m.
http://www.hay98.com/
Gunner -
Jason Fest, 08' ?
Buic
I'm in!
Expert since 10 a.m.
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I might be able make that one
You frigging better!
Expert since 10 a.m.
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So, was it yea?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Carpentry skills are important, so are people skills and business skills. People skills are important whether you are an employee or an owner. Business skills less so. I see too many people in the trades that just don't bother planning for the future. If they make $1,000/week, they spend $1,000/week - or more. How many people in the trades have the opportunity to pay into Social Security, but don't because they would rather have the cash? Then when they spend the cash, they are SOL.
Don, you and Tim are kicking at the same heap, but from different sides.
Statistically, and from conversations with other carps and builders, Tim is right on. As are your points quoted above. I don't think Tim is being totally cynical. He is giving a wake up call to those who just want to "bang nails".
You mentioned people skills. When I first read that Jason was thinking of law enforcement, my thought was that LE would be a people skill intensive job.
Jason: Good luck with your future. I missed you at Laurel, but I have a Jason Pharez Construction pencil that sits on my desk. Keeps the motivation up, to be reminded that there are upcoming young carps/builders.
Bowz
I made the personal comment at an early age when I was trying to decide what to do with my life that contractors did not live very prosperous. I remember making that comment to my Dad . That comment has stayed with me all my life.
I first got the notion that because they werent living the best they must be saving it . Certainly it must be laid away in a bank drawing interrest. Sure that had to be it .
After I entered the trades and got my own business I started finding out reality. I talked to too many of them and they were open enough for a new conclusion. There wasnt much money in the bank and what you saw was it .
I had a question though of "why".
Through the years and lot here at Breaktime Ive finally got enough of the answer to satisfy me . While there is no #1 reason its normally a list of reasons of why carps live poorly in my area.
I dont know if the answers are necesary here but the point is that its reaccuring in their lifes at a tremendous rate.
Tim
After I entered the trades and got my own business I started finding out reality. I talked to too many of them and they were open enough for a new conclusion
I have had a similar experience. (talking to people both locally and at the national Remodelers Show)There are far more examples in my memory of carps/builders struggling than there are success stories.
I had a question though of "why".
Through the years and lot here at Breaktime Ive finally got enough of the answer to satisfy me . While there is no #1 reason its normally a list of reasons of why carps live poorly in my area.
I dont know if the answers are necesary here but the point is that its reaccuring in their lifes at a tremendous rate.
I'd be really curious as to your answers. probably not in this thread though. It is one of the points brought up in the Jerrald Hayes recommended book "Defensive Estimating". if a discussion gets going again in that thread, I think your ideas would be insightful.
Bowz
AMEN.
I am living proof, and yes, I could have been a whole lot better business person. But I am Not, I am what I am. Rather give away ten bucks to someone who needs it then put it in the bank for my old age.
Jason,Good luck in you new career choices, man it's worth a mint to do what you want to be doing. I can relate to the money/job thing....I was working in Atlanta for a software company making pretty good scratch. I hated the job, loved the $$$. Company bought by another in Glastonbury, Ct. Offered promotion, bonus and increase. Still hated the job, and this would take me further away from my kids.Kept telling the young VP no, not moving. He offered larger bonus, larger salary and longer title. No deal. Finally I had to tell him "you don't get it do you? It's not about the money..." out came the deer in the headlights look, he didn't and most like still doesn't understand, we parted company.I've never been happier, making less money, loving my job, decent co-workers, a clock with credit time for overages.Happiness is a difficult thing to measure. But if you prioritize things that are important, you will achieve a sense of balance in your live and know "you are where you are because your supposed to be there."Best wishes to you and your family, life is a wonderful journey with bumps along the way. Beats the he!! out of the alternative.Rip
Jason Pharez - "Although it's been difficult going from top of the world back to average joe, the only thing I really miss about the business was the money--and that's pretty trivial in the swing of things. It's been nice being able to leave work at the jobsite and not having the hassles. All in all, it's no big deal; just an adjustment."
I'm not sure I understand what happened here. If the money was so good why are you getting out? The "good money" is an owners compensation for the risks and hassles of running a business.
View Image
Jer, why do ya always ask the burning questions? J/K
The money was good (as in better than anything I'd ever made as an employee) when work was steady; unfortunately with the deflation of the housing market in my area there are a lot of people (including me) who hit a dry streak.
Honestly, though, I had made some mistakes, too. First was too many people on payroll. Second was too many fringe benefits. Third was paying 1.5x overtime. Fourth was paying people more than they were worth. Fifth was not being able to fire said people when I knew better.
The biggest mistake I made, though, was not saving when I should have. (I believe this was Tim's point earlier.) I'm now making roughly 10% of what I was making as a sub, so saving is mandatory. (As is not buying redundant crap in the name of a "tax writeoff".)
>Honestly, though, I had made some mistakes, too. First was too many people on payroll. Second was too many fringe benefits. Third was paying 1.5x overtime. Fourth was paying people more than they were worth. Fifth was not being able to fire said people when I knew better.<I wonder if we are related!
Love Enhancements.
Get over it....... The angry going eat you up. ~Brownbagg '06
Jason, sorry to hear of your loss of interest.
Good Luck with whatever you pursue!!
You want back, in you could always move to the Boston area and work for Dieselpig!!!
"And the Grinch, with his Grinch-feet ice cold in the snow, stood puzzling and puzzling, how could it be so?
It came without ribbons. It came without tags. It came without packages, boxes or bags.
And he puzzled and puzzled 'till his puzzler was sore.
Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before! Maybe Christmas, he thought, doesn't come from a store.
Maybe Christmas... perhaps... means a little bit more!â€
“And then the true meaning of Christmas came through, and the Grinch found the strength of ten Grinches plus two. “
Max Rules!!!
Well JP - ck your email.
And come back here and thump BH for fergitting your hilarious tales at Memphest, especially as told by your DW...re off to the next career stop on the ladder of life!
DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
dude... it ain't sad... it's just another day.....
of all the things we hold dear.... money is the one that is the easiest to replace....
I can't list all the businesses i've had.... some worked, some didn't, but i don't miss a one of em... they were what they were at the time.... if i never walked away with a dime you couldn't buy what i learned from each.... Hell I considered each a success if i only walked away with one good story....
I have never bought into the idea of a job... yeah i work... but i've never had a job and i'm not real sure there is such a thing as "security" in todays world other than what you find for yourself and in yourself.... comfort is something i was never comfortable getting too much of... seems dull or.... maybe it just dulls me...
go with your heart, make sure you have fun and know that about anything can be replaced but time... don't trade comfort and security for being able to come home everyday feeling like you did something....
good luck
p
(maybe this is why my friends prefer i not talk to their kids )
LOL Craig!
I thought about ya (or more specifically, your wife's stories about ya) and I said, "Man, that guy's had more jobs this year than I've had in a lifetime. And he turned out OK." <---big LOL on that one.
Seriously, though, I think everyone's echoed how I feel: I'm young enough to make a change, and with my drive and dedication, I'll be successful at whatever I choose to do....that's just me.
In the meantime, I'll do what needs to be done to make ends meet, and enjoy life a little. Also get some new perspectives on old subjects.
you'll be ok.... but did did touch on a few things you learned... all things others could have told you..... but..... no one could have tought you.... some never get to be on both sides of the fence the fact that you have jumped it makes you wiser...
I don't think anyone can do it all well alone.... doing all that you did, doing the paperwork, the bids, the hire'n & fire'n, the worry'n, the procure'n, and actully doing the work... man it's just hard.... and not something i'd ever want to subject myself to again...
I wish you well dude
p
I'm not in the construction trades, but I've felt gratitude to the people on this forum who have helped me thru some tough times even if they didn't know it or correspond directly. I hope we can return the favor for you.
A person only gets one lifetime, but you can have several lives. I've had several 90 degree and 180 degree changes of course. So far it's all worked out well. I've gone from 3 acres of waterfront to a single wide 1985 trailer, and I'm happy. See what can happen.
I hope your changes work for you.
Jason,
Sorry to hear that your closing shop, don't lose sight of the oppurtunities ahead of you because of it though. If I recall you're still pretty damn young. Good luck in the future and keep an open mind.
Edited 12/29/2006 10:21 am ET by CAGIV
Wishing you the best of fortunes, Jason!
Did you know that a "failed" business is often viewed as a good sign for future success in business?
Keep your head up and your eyes open, you may yet spot a business opportunity worth working on.
And if you never go back into business, you find an entirely satisfying work situation of some other sort. I know several people who love their LE related careers. It could be a fit for you and the only way to find out is to go for it!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Im faced with shutdown, Mainly roofing, But i would need new equipment, trucks, cant get the help, I cant work 8 to 12 hours on the roof anymore every day, So im being a handyman, small jobs but have lic and WC still, I cant compete anymore at all being honest, My wife works and everything is paid for so although i need money im not desperate, Yet i feel like i failed instead of goingon to something new, seasons change yet its hard to go from hard charging to laid back
Yes Bobby, that's kinda how I felt at first. But I'm finding that even working as an employee for another framing company that I am able to do my best work (i.e., in the field) without the hassles of running the company, which was never my strongest suit.
Shutting down the business was not an easy choice, but a necessary one in this case...mine was stagnant and there was no sense in continuing on a flat line.
"Life's like getting out of one car and into another"
John Lennon
I won't wish you luck
because you won't need any : )
Be well/respect
Namaste'
andy...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Meaning of Namaste': I honor the place in you in which the entire Universe dwells, I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Truth, of Light and of Peace, When you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, we are One.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS:)http://http://www.woodstockanddeadseascrolls.net/files/track09c.mp3<
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For years and years guys undercut me on jobs, They bragged with glee as they worked for wages, I always kept busy and put aside, and invested in real estate, That meant driving an older truck and no boat in the yard, Now these guys have nothing and cry the blues, But they had all the work that memory alone must keep them warm at night
"This has been a sad couple of hours; closing accounts, and just looking around my office at all the things that my short-lived company has provided me (in additon to all the good lifestyle it has given me in the past 3 years!)."
So why are you closing up? Take some more time, find some better employees charge enough that you can take a vacation out of the country for a month... enjoy life man.
One more thing is, i made a lot more money the last three years with just one good employee than i ever did with four or five employees.
Well kid Ive always thought you wewre just like a cat. No matter how far you fall you would always land on your feet.
Look at this as a opportunity. you'll do fine.
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A young friend wisely exited the field of electronics for LE. Unbelievable benefits and retirement, and a pretty fair salary. He is a people person (but dominant to the point of irritating) and I think he has an excellent future. Plus he gets to drive real fast. He always liked that too.
Yeah, around here there's just no benefits with res. construction.
My wife is very excited about the long-term benefits that a county/state job offers--that's the main reason she has a job with a major company; so we have health insurance.
And like you said, I'll get to do cool things in LE. Shooting and fitness are two of my favorite hobbies, so I'm sure I'll get to do them more.
The absolute worst thing that can happen is you'll decide that LE isn't for you and you'll be all the wiser on a second go around in carpentry. That's not half bad.
It can be a downer, but don't let it get to you.
Best of luck.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
So what's the word, bird? Whatcha into? Are you five-O yet?
And that song goes off in my head
Gotcha. :)