My home recently flooded during Hurricane Katrina. I am replacing my old patio door with a Jeld-Wen double french door with captive blinds (from Lowe’s). The new unit has two operating doors and an integral metal threshold. The contractor partially installed the door and then left for the Thanksgiving holiday. I noted that with both doors closed, I can see LOTS of daylight at the top center where the doors come together. Is this due to the unit frame being twised (i.e all of the members are not in the same plane)? Is there an easy procedure to ensure a tight seal on the operating door all the way around?
Secondly, I noted that the normally-closed door has pins at both the top and bottom to keep it solidly closed most of the time. The top pin has a receiver plate in the top jamb; however, the bottom pin has nowhere to be inserted. When the door is closed, it looks like the pin would have to enter a yet-to-be-cut hole in the rubber weather striping on the threshold. Is there something I’m missing or will I have to punch a hole in this area?
Thirdly, the threshold is not solid (i.e. it flexes when lightly stepped on). I think the contractor installed it directly on the slab. Apparently, the slab must not be flat in this area. The old door was installed on a piece of PT 1x and was quite solid. What’s the proper way to prepare the base to install a unit like this?
Thanks for any advice you can offer.
Replies
Point those things out to your contractor when he/she comes back. They may have just stood the door up to close the opening for the holiday and plan to dial it in when they return.
I recently did that on a job installing several Andersen french doors. Some parts were missing and we shut down for a week until they arrived. One of the doors was "temporarily" installed just to close up the hole in the wall.
I don't know about Jeld-Wen, but the Andersen doors have adjustable hinges. We've had to "tweak" most of the doors we've installed - including an adjustment to close the gap between the active and passive doors.
Dave45 - Thanks for your response. I have not had a chance to talk with the workers so there may be an easy explanation. I will take it up with them tomorrow. Thanks again.
Jerry
I suggest that you've been left with real issues that require correction.
Firstly, I would comment that I have yet to see a door, from a reputable manufacturer, that is not square in all corners and not of true plane. Thus, my approach to door installation is that as the door is square and plane, then it is the ideal jig to use in setting and anchoring the supporting frame in an equally square and true configuration.
In your particular case, you've got a factory machined assembly which should provide you with a superbly finished door/frame installation. The only variable ingredient is the skill (or lack thereof) of installation.
To achieve substantial performance from your door assembly, you simply need to assure that: 1) a uniform margin is maintained around the perimeter of each door, and; 2) that the jambs are plumb in two planes, i.e., in the interior/exterior direction and the left/right direction. When you get these elements right, every component will fit and work very well; however, too many installations miss the mark.
(MARGIN is the gap between the edge of the door and the face of frame.)
To remedy your situation, I would suggest the following course of action: 1) confirm that the margin between each door and its hinge jamb is uniform over the height of the door and that these jamb margins are equal [if this is not the case, the installer has likely messed with shimming of the hinges and this needs to be undone]; 2) with the door-to-jamb margins uniform, raise either of the left or right jambs so as to line up the tops of the doors and with this line being level [at which point the head and sill members of the frame should be level; 3) fabricate shims of uniform thickness from. say, multiple layers of boxboard [as used in cereal boxes] and place between doors and jamb head, again to maintain a uniform margin across the top of the doors; 3) plumb the hinge jambs and align doors and jambs for all to be in plane and without any bows or twists; 4) place wood shims to take up the gap between the hinge jambs and the wall stud framing, and fasten jambs (through shims) to the frame, using either finishing nails or screws, at each of the level of the top and bottom hinges and at midheight; 5) using screws at the 1/3 points, tie the jamb head member to the head of the structural frame opening [lintel], but without the use of shims [What we are trying to do is level and support the former without imposing any vertical loads from the building framing as might happen if solid shims were used in lieu of none.]; 6) use shims to line the bottom sill, and check for level [it should be, as the doors are square and the head has been aligned and levelled]; 7) install shims and screws along the length of the sill member in factory predrilled locations, or otherwise at the 1/3rd points, and apply polyurathane insulating foam, [in several light passes, separated by 1/2 hr intervals, to preclude distortion by overfilling] in the undersill gap, thus weathersealing this void, and giving continuous support to the threshold. [Please note that the threshold is not a supporting member
You should now have a pair of doors that fit with uniform margin all round, with uniformly firm sealing against the perimeter stops, and with no varying gaps or daylighting.
From your description, I appraise that there is a sealing astregal affixed to one of the doors, as opposed to there being a fixed vertical dividing frame member between the two doors. Insofar as the matter of the detail relative to securing of bottom bolts on the doors, I would suggest that if this information was not packed with the door, you have only to enquire with the manufacturer, for which a toll-free phone number is likely available from its website- simply use your favourite seach engine to locate.
{There are, of course, other details of the installation to be satisfied and which have not been included in this discussion, such as: the vertical position of the threshold with respect to the finished floor; the location of the door assembly, horizontally, within the wall section; and the composition of the exterior wall system. None of these affect the squareness, plane, fit, and mechanics of the doors' operation.)
Templar,
Thanks for your detailed advice. I will go over these points with my contractor when I see him tomorrow. He may have only temporarily "buttoned-up" the installation for the holiday and plans to tweak everything plumb and square tomorrow. I'm an engineer and when I see things like this I sometimes jump to conclusions about the skill of the workers before I've given them a chance to finish the job.
Thanks again for your help.
Regards - Jerry
I also happen to be a professional engineer, civil branch. I just don't wear it on my sleeve in a forum such as this.
I have spent the majority of my career in the design, construction, maintenance, and operations of commercial and institutional buildings, and in one scenario, managed a porfolio of buildings in excess of 13,500,000 sf. I have found it to my differential advantage to focus on developing the skills of my staff and contractors for "getting the job done right the first time". There was just too much new stuff coming down the pike demanding of our attention, thus precluding any luxury of time for our "re-doing" of works.
Having also spent 4 years in investigating the failure of buildings systems, as a consultant to the insurance industry and the legal profession, (a service now called "forensics"), I have seen problems of virtually every stripe. Invariably, my findings revealed that these problems were attributable to the incompetance of persons carrying out the design or construction of the affected works.
Yours is a situation not unlike which I have already witnessed countless times. (During a recent stay at a Holiday Inn Express, I observed a sizable daylight gap between the door and frame at the entrance to my suite; in checking of all doors in my corridor, I found the this problem not to be isolated, but rather systemic as each door that I examined showed this same condition!)
I'm pleased that your training provides you with a clear understanding of "plane", a term with which the trades are often unfamiliar. Just advise your installer that you won't consider his job as being complete unless the door assembly is plane, level, and square, thus presenting him with your expectations. I strongly suggest that you check for meeting of these parameters before allowing the application of any foam insulation and trimming of the opening.
If your door is installed correctly and isn't warped, there might be a simple fix. We installed a similar door and initially it had the same "daylight" at the top center. The problem was a plastic shield on the pinned door that was pressing against the rubber gasket seal on the frame at the top center. The factory didn't trim it flush to the center and it was sticking out enough to mess up the seal. We cut the thin plastic back 1/2" so it stopped depressing the gasket, and the problem was solved.