Ever wonder why people think they can do their own Carpentry.I don’t do my own taxes,Idon’t do root canals on my self.
Why are Carpenters the bitches of the trades?Just a bad day on the site.
But they are all about the same.
Electriction needs this or they will pull off
Plumber has this in the way,move it or they will pull off.
Carpenters running around like ants to apeese the other trades.
AHHHHHHH!
Replies
Ever wonder why the best supers are former carpenters?
Because they are the only ones who have a real understanding of the art of building. (Although I've often thought that a grade 2 teacher would make a great super.)
So vent away my brother and in a perfect world, plumbers wouldn't be allowed near a house with a recipricating saw and electricians should have to drill all their holes with a brace and bit.
Gabe
"So vent away my brother and in a perfect world, plumbers wouldn't be allowed near a house with a recipricating saw and electricians should have to drill all their holes with a brace and bit."
Gosh Gabe your sure hard on um !~ LOL
Tim Mooney
Ya and we've all seen 12 inch joist sliced with a sawzal to allow a 3 inch pipe to pass or a joist with 30 3/4" holes within a square foot with an electrician standing there holding his hot 1/2 inch drill saying " what's the problem"?
Gabe
Vent on my brother.
Vent on...
It sounds like the plumber and electricians are doing some ventilation.
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
And what's the deal with this plumber's crack? Do they *all* have to have it?
Just say" NO "to Crack!
Maybe someone should invent a 'Crack Guard' to protect the innocent.
plumbers wouldn't be allowed near a house with a recipricating saw
You've seen this grail? I thought there was some cabal that trained plumbers that the onlt two woodworking tools permitted were a jack knife or a hatchet (or chain saw if the hatchet was too sharp) . . .
The plumbers I know will only use the sawsall on pipe ("don't wanna dull the blade, ya'kno . . . ")
In all fairness, when was the last time you saw a carpenter with more than one wrench (other than working on his ride)?
Or as was pointed out to me, "What do you call a carpenter with plumbing & electrical tools? General Contractor."
Good use of a complete hole saw set will eliminate most non-pipe sawzall work.
Having said that let me list the blades I carry... yes I know I am strange but...
Note that if I get down to a quantity of 3 in any size I order a new 5-pack.
12" Woodcutting with embedded nails
9" "
6" "
8" 10 tooth
6" "
8" 18 tooth
6" "
6" "The Torch"
3" 10 tooth
3" 14 tooth
3" 18 tooth
3" 24 tooth
3" 10 tooth scroll
3" 14 tooth scroll
3" 18 tooth scroll
1-7 are Lenox and the rest are Milwaukee.
And I know HOW and WHEN to use them!
And I know HOW and WHEN to use them
Ah, but you see, you are clearly the good plumber. That is, the one I call after finding out what the inexpensive cheap plumber did behind the wall I'm renovating . . .
My grandfather, a retired Machinist Mate used to tell how you could tell a bad plumber from the good ones: the bad ones melt in the rain. Or, they had no reflection. Or, they were just like a check--only good until it reached the bank . . .
Yes, and I am expensive. Upfront that is. But not in the long run.
LoL!
Mind you, I've done a lot of work fixing what the 'cheapest" guy messed up.
Oops, back to my super gig (which is more like being the stepmother to the crews, but that's what the boss wants, just now, today, this minute . . . )
Didnt read your post before I posted mine, if you were in kansas I would guess we used to same plumbing sub, guess its universal.
View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
It is, they don't use a sawzall, it's called a universal saw, LOL.
Excellence is its own reward!
Construction is a universal language.
Don't you find it strange that most people still think it's a foreign language.
Gabe
Ever give the owners/contractor a set of drawings showing the height, width, depth, location of cabinetry, paneling with syle and rail configurations and tell them to give to the other trades so that things are not in the way/in the right place? Drive for 2 1/2 hrs to show up on the job and you can only do 1/2 of the work done that you wanted to. Then get reamed by the general because you can't be there the next day to finish because you have another obligation? Then, when you finally get things smoothed out and show up 2 days later, the drywaller has yet to finish the patching. I think this is some of the reasons why I carry other trades' tools in my truck. Then every one says "boy, why do you carry all those tools with you? Plus, ever get paid for doing THEIR work for THEM?.... should I go on?
Oh yeah, one more:
Homeowner: "Why does that cabinet cost SOOOO much? It is out of our budget."
Me: " This is exactly what you wanted. Here is a breakdown on labor and materials."
Later on...
Homeowner; "We need you to make the sink section bigger. WE ordered the $3000 GOLD PLATED SINK FROM FRANCE and we changed our mind, we ordered a bigger sink. What do you mean, it will cost $750 to rebuild the center cabinet section? We already ordered it and it has been shipped. We can't get our money back"
Me: "BooHoo" (only said it to myself)
Let it all out my brother, your pain is ours.
Tell you what, how about a nice sip of cognac to help relaz those tense feelings?
Gabe
You been looking over my shoulder????
I had to redesign a whole bathroom because of a $3000 bowl - after it was framed and wired and plumbing roughed in..
Excellence is its own reward!
Scary isn't it.
I was talking about the "hers" bathroom. I left out that they ordered one for the "his" bathroom also. This is just one of the stories on this job. Do you want to hear more? ....How about doing a total gut of the 35th floor penthouse. All the way down nothing left but vent ducts and waste lines without a single permit pulled. Buiding was known to contain asbestos. Building was inCity of Los Angeles.
Your plumbers ask you to move things?
Be happy ours just break out the recip and hack the hel out of everything.
Tell the plumber to shove a 3" pipe up his ####. Sheeesh... ever hear of asking the carp to help you move something for your mutual benefit?
Note... the last sentence was not at you but at your plumber. And I am a plumber.
1) "Ever wonder why people think they can do their own Carpentry.I don't do my own taxes,Idon't do root canals on my self."
In construction anybody healthy enough to swing a hammer, even if they scarcely know what to swing it at, call themselves "carpenter". It is the default, catch-all, title for what amounts to, in many cases, to an unskilled laborer.
From the meanest untrained grunt to the top of the line master carpenter all go by the title: carpenter. Due to any lack of badges or differentiating identifiers, unless you know them personally, people cannot tell them apart.
If you want credit for being more than a common laborer you, the trade in general, will have to institute some sort of hierarchy with some way of easily differentiating between levels of talent and/or training. On some industrial sites the color of hard hat differentiates ranks within the trade.
Unionizing, assuming a well run union with good training and professionalism, would be one way of instituting some pride in learning and sense of career path to a trade. Much can be done by the contractor. Of course this goes against the rebel pride, individualistic and ego driven, common to many of the building trades.
Too often I find people in my field, electricity, who claim to be electricians, balk at any correction in technique, but have gaping holes in their knowledge base or quality control. Not that I have the code memorized or don't make mistakes. I try to keep current and seldom hesitate to check the code on points on the job I'm not sure of. It comes down to who is qualified. Who says so and how do you show it to customers.
Do you allow posers to confuse the issue and lower the reputation of the trade? Its cute to see a laborer fudge jobs without correction but anyone observing takes the messages as "Gee anybody can be a carpenter" and " I could do better than that".
2) "Electriction needs this or they will pull off
Plumber has this in the way,move it or they will pull off."
Physics will not bend for framing. Water flows down hill. Extended wiring and ducts causes inefficiencies that cost HOs money, comfort, reliability and can easily raise the cost of installation beyond what is reasonable.
The statement about pulling off the job is actually a compromise position, a bow to the framers, not a threat. If the carpenters won't move it I will have to. I'm not a wood mechanic so I will likely not be as delicate as a carpenter would like. Not wanting to force the issue or cause the carpenters too much extra work, as my ham-handed modifications would, I take a middle path and move to another job where I can be more effective in earning my pay. This allows the carpenters to correct the situation at their leisure.
As a loyal employee I represent my employer. If working around ill planned framing, the need for chases are common sense and the locations of panels are on the plans and should have been provided for, is going to cost my employer money I have to get it moved. If you would have framed in a chase I wouldn't need to drill those thirty holes. So you have nothing to complain about. I seldom see a house, outside of one framed by one particularly good framer I know, that is framed with the electrical and mechanical trades in mind. If it was taken care of in the first place it wouldn't need changing.
Most of these situations are predictable and avoidable. Working on a few houses together with the same electricians and mechanical tradesmen helps. As do pre-construction planning meetings. A good group thump, bitch and rub session, if properly done, can bring conflicts to light before the framing is started so the lead man can shift the placement, materials or design to make everything line up with a minimum of fuss. Changes are cheaper and easier during the planning stage. Less so once the plumber has butchered a string of I-joists or drilled 3" holes through a half-dozen 2by4 studs to get his pipes to a tight location.
Would you guys quit whining about amateur carpenters and answer my question about insulating a cathedral ceiling?
From DougH, an amateur carpenter
That does it. I'm packin up my tools and going home where I can get this sort of abuse from someone I care about.
:P
Doug
Just went through the thread and couldnt find your Q. What the hell are you talking about?
Doug
Different thread
http://forums.prospero.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=30103.1View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
Oh, boy! Not the P word(plumber). I've had a plumber that came to the job in the late evening and stubbed all his pipes up threw my floor before I could lay the decking. Man was I Pissed off the next day. The super wouldnt let me cut them off so I had to sheet around pipes. Makes for plateing walls real fun too. I say If all these other trades are so important let them get in there first and i'll frame to there work.
Shame on your super. That plumber needed to have his chops busted a bit.
My guess is...
D.) ALL OF THE ABOVE
am I right?
Because around here..they got the "licenses"...
PA doesn't have a licensing program for carpentry. That's why I'm all for licensing...as long as there's a test of some sort and not just a mass check mail in.
Then..knowing full well I can pass any test they come up with....I'm charging more!
Pay me or get the addition torn down.....I like the sounds of that.
Reminds me of a trade school teacher I had......when asked why he went into teaching for low(er) bucks than he coulda made out in the field...
He always said he was tired of working next to "walmart carpenters"
..as in the guy that's laid off from stocking shelves on Fri.....hits walmart over the weekend for a hammer and tool belt...
and is pimping himself out on Mon as a carpenter.
Pisses me off too........everyone's a freaking carpenter
then some have the nerve to charge for the mess they leave behind......
Every wonder why half my "answers" here are "Call a pro"?
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Ever so softly, I will ask, what are the carps doing there, arn't they supposed to be gone? I suppose I would suggest scottyb, probaly a good time to get the garden soil preped for spring planting, I would plan it at the same time as when the HVAC guys show up, boy are they going to be PO. Jim J
You forgot the worst of the bunch "HVAC" qaruanteed if you make a 6" wide slot in your framing they will jam a 6 1/2" wide duct in there.