Kitchen cabinet full extension sheleves
Has anyone seen or installed adjustable full extension shelves in new custom kitchen cabinets as the attached pic shows? Or in any factory made cabinet? My customer was told that this is a common method but I’ve never seen it except as a retrofit. While technically adjustable there are various clips holding the shelf in place. Is this standard practice in other areas of the country other than here in the midwest?
Since I probably will be retained to make this shelving adjustable (a kitchen full) I’d like to know what others have found to be a user friendly system.
Replies
BHB,
From the looks of that pic, I see a 100# side mount slide. As it is installed it may provide 20# of support. I would pad out the slides and mount them as intended.
Chuck S
I am finishing a Kitchen w/ Candlelight Cabinets + they have them.
as do Plato
I am pretty sure most higher end cabinets have these now or at least offer it as an option.
.
.
"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion"
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
.
.
.
If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
I'm not familiar with Candlelight Cabinets but I've used Plato cabinets in the past. I don't recall that they attached their slide outs to another shelf. The issue isn't the full extension shelf but that is attached to another shelf which adds considerable weight making it difficult for the homeowner to easily adjust. All the adjustable slide outs I've seen have some type of system to attach the track to the sides of the cabinet.
If you're (or they) are gonna do something like that, remove the doors and use drawers instead.
Much more user friendly and allows better use of the space.
If we are going to offer the customer height-adjustable rollouts, we use the Tenn-Tex system of parts, seen here. I have never seen it done with shelves as you show.
View Image
To clear the hinges (in frameless) or to clear the stiles and hinges (in faceframed) you are going to need spacers, and the TennTex pilasters provide the spacing you need, and are available in various depths.
This pic shows standard 3/4 extension epoxy coated euro slides, but the TennTex system has hook dowels for using other types of slides as well. When going full-extension, we typically use Blum Tandem undermounts.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Here in West. Co. NY. Thats all I would ever have my client purchase. Kraft Maid or custom at your local shop. We call them trays. I have retro fitted them into many kitchens also. My cabinet shop charges me $100 per tray with glides, Blum. I install for $50-$60 per tray. I have seen a verticle track for them also brand (?). I have found over the years that once the hgts. are set you won't move them for 20yrs.
Edited 4/26/2008 8:41 pm ET by Pelipeth
For the bottom shelf it's simple enough to use regular drawer slides on pieces of 2x2 -- you can have any extension you want. Otherwise we have some like the ones pictured in the ad above with about 80% extension.
Accuride and Blum also makes systems.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1497
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1514
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I've used some side mounts on the bottom in my own kitchen. I have an 18" deep cabinet over the ref that's hard to reach. The pull out shelf is attached to the 3/4" bottom of the cabinet with larger, longer screws. It's not on an adjustable shelf. If it was something I used every day, I think there would be premature bearing or track wear, just from the orientation. It works fine but not as smooth as a true undermount.
There are adjustable pull outs that are called pilaster systems. Side mounted slides are used and the ones that fit in the cabinet, can be placed in various positions on tracks. I haven't seen any that use bottom mounts. There are some knock down cabinet fasteners that might work for adjustable shelves with a bottom slide pull out. The fastener would have to prevent the shelf from tipping or sliding when the pull out is used. The strength of that fastener would effect the strength of the slides carrying capacity.
http://www.houckind.com/products/drawerslides/series1209/1209.htm
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I've made my own kitchec shelves/drawers and used KV full extension slides on them. Have worked very well. I originally picked up KV at a local supplier, but Lowes now carries them. Easy to install and adjust.
I sell a custom cabinet that has a very similar set-up. The only difference (and one I suggest you ad) is that there is a ladder attached to the back of the cabinet. It recieves the shelf and keeps it from tipping up when the roll-out is extended when loaded with weight. I will post a pic, when I get a minute.
We make our own pilaster adjustable shelf units using Blum tandem drawer guides and row holes just like shelf holes.
They aren't an easy adjustment(for Suzzy homemaker), you have to reposition screws just like when you mount the drawer guides but as someone else mentioned, once you have them where you want you wont change them again for another 20 years.......... if ever!
Doug
I've never seen one attached to a shelf like that. We sometimes do pull-out trays that are basically drawers behind doors. Like Pete said, it's usually more efficient to just do drawers, but some folks are fixed on the idea of pull-outs.
Drawers behind doors are a major pain for the person using the kitchen.
Being able to simply slide out (fully) a drawer to gain access to the big pots in back by using your toe, is sooo much easier than having to open a door (and step out of it''s way), bend over to see which shelf holds the pan, then slide it out and go thru the whole reversal process is frankly, a foolish waste of the cook's time.
By converting the shelves behind doors in my kitchen bases to pull out drawers actually increased my storage space by 50%.
These base units all used to have doors - just like the few you see. The ones present are covering an open space under the cooktop, corner lazy susan, and sink. One of the pictures is of under the sink.
For $3500, two years ago, the cabinet maker refit the spaces you see open for heavy duty (100# ea) full extension ball bearing slides, made drawers to fit the size of cook wear, did custom drawers for the untensils (all defined by me, and then by what is in the drawer - note they're mostly all different), ordered custom drawer fronts (from our buddy in Montreal) in select cherry and fit everything to look as if it were new. The drawers are not dovetailed, but the construction and smoothness of the glides negates the need.
Then I stained the cherry with two coats of Watco fruitwood, rubbed dry and polished. Two coats of Frenchy amber, and 3 or 4 coats of Target's Ultima Spray Lacquer. Then the cabinet guy assembled all the finished pieces.
Maybe some would think I paid too much, but the ease of use is worth it.
Never again will my bases be doors & shelves.
View Image
View Image
The knife holder is solidly built in and the drawer dividers are attached to the frames and bottom of the drawer so things cannot slide under them.
View Image
So I buy at Costco, shoot me!
View Image
The lower left of this picture shows the side of the island base. That portion was NOT refinished. So's I think we did fairly well at matching, although it took 6 months to a year for the white spots to darken a bit.
View Image
and my shop, which was new construction.
View Image
Edited 4/27/2008 12:58 pm ET by peteshlagor
Edited 4/27/2008 1:05 pm ET by peteshlagor
Thats awesome! I have heard of kitchens like that. I have never built them though. Great system.
I'm not jealous.
Not even a little bit.
Well, maybe just a little bit....
That's a great kitchen. You're preaching to the choir on the drawers, but yours looks like a particularly nice setup.
Nice shop too.
Pete
I agree with you about the drawers Vs pull outs behind doors, BUT, sometimes people want the look and then you have to do pull outs, or shelves.
I did a kitchen for a lady that wanted nothing to do with doors on the lowers, all drawers, even under the sink! Not a single door below. She was an older lady and could not bend over very far, getting down on her hands and knees to find something in the back of a cabinet wasn't an option for her.
Doug
Here is a photo of the shelf keeper mounted in the back of the cabinet.
I'd like to know what others have found to be a user friendly system.
Well, back when I was in casework, our factory system used wooden verticals with a dado on 3"/75mm centers into which a matching horizontal runner would set. To that runner on either side would be applied the carcass slide.
With most of the full extension guides we were using, that allowed the shelf with slides and runners to be moved as a unit into one of the dadoes as needed. A dowel through the front of the runners made a stop behind the face frame so that the runner would not slide out in use.
It was not elegant, but it worked. I don't know how they adapted it to the frameless line they were developing as I was leaving (happily) that place.
I have seen a setup where a bottom-mounted slide is put on an adjustable shelf with the slide out over that. The shelf was secured with the very nice (if spendy) clips with a vertical peg and a spring retention clip. Advantage there is that the slide-out can be sized to clear the doors nicely.
I work with semi-custom & custom cabinetry, and adjustable roll-outs are available in every line I use. There are various types, but all of my lines use plastic or wood pilasters with metal pins that the roll-out attaches to. The roll-out can be placed wherever the homeowner likes and requires no shelf. Generally, the only time I see this type roll-out is in retrofit or in an open finished-to-match-interior cabinet below or beside a cooktop or range. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them; they just require the shelf for support.
Check out omeganationalproducts.com for some general info and picture of wood pilasters. They also have some other nice wood cabinet accessories.
Hope this helps you out!
Omega National has some nice accessories. Thanks for the info. And THANKS to everyone for their replies to my question. It's been a big help.
Like you say, they are common in retrofits but I don't see them often in new homes since the hardware is more expensive.
You can get standard slides at Lee Valley
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&cat=3,43614&p=43616&ap=1
and a two-way slide for islands
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&p=51775&cat=3,43614,43616&ap=2
They also have wire baskets.
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&cat=3,43722&p=43723