About to build a new house and am exploring options. Looking for contemporary (clean lines) kitchen cabinetry, good quality, slab doors, brushed stainless hardware. Considering soapstone, slate, ritchlite, avanza (or comparable), or granite for the countertops. I like black, but I know it really shows dust…
What cabinetry lines are your favorites (best performance and good looks for the buck). What about custom? Not filthy rich…but would like to have quality if it is within reach.
Consumer Reports recommends Omega and Shanendoah (sp?) and even Ikea best top, mid, and low-priced options. But I am curious about what the real “experts” think….
Replies
Hi. Do your best to look into a custom cab builder. I have had excellent luck with customs in the jobs I've sold. Several shops around here even install for a decent price, and the HO saves on sales tax.
For box cabs, depending on your location, there are, obviously, many quality lines. If your house is even somewhat "irregular" the better lines may have more options to steer clear of fillers. Omega is a decent name around here. Merrilat and Schrock are available, too. Crystal is a high quality semi custom line that my employer almost exclusively uses. They offer a long list of standard boxes intermixed with custom features. Of course, I feel any reputable cab line would offer whatever features you would need.
Back to custom, in my area there are many Amish folks who with custom cab shops that offer many features, without computer design, though! ;) The quality is usually there, but the price tag is very competitive.
Good luck on the search!
Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
There don't seem to be very many custom builders in this area. So it may not be as competitive as elsewhere. How does working with a custom cabinet contractor work? Is there a way to get a failry accurate bid early on in the process. Is there a charge for the bid?
Are you working with a builder? If not, think about it. They can be a great resource for many of your questions. You pay a doctor and lawyer for their guidance; why not a professional builder? As for custom cabinet shops, there are many around the area."I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
The custom cab shop that I have done many installs for will do an accurate estimate for no charge. They are a shop that does about equal new to re-mods kitchens. Most shops should be able to accurately bid from the plan, then when the drywall is on get the final numbers to tweak the plan.
The shops around here, as I would assume most everywhere, are very easy to work with, since it's the money they want. One of the previous posters is very correct in finding a builder to work with. Unless you plan to do everything yourself, there should be someone out there for assistance. Maybe even the trim guys could steer you toward a good cabinet shop or design store.
Good Luck.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
Peg
There don't seem to be very many custom builders in this area.
Are you kidding?
I work in the Austin area, all the work we do is for custom builders. We are a custom cabinet shop. I know of countless other custom cab and custom builders in the Austin Tx area.
Where excactly are you building? Have you picked out a builder yet? Just wondering how far you are along in this process.
Doug
I meant that there didn't seem to be many custom cabinet builders...not custom homebuilders. Without a doubt, there are PLENTY of those in the area!
Did a google search and found 2 with websites. http://www.stevetull.com/ and http://www.qsicustomcabinets.com/products.htm
Haven't settled on a builder yet, but are thinking of going with Texas Help U Build.
Just trying to get edu-muh-cated right now. 'Splorin' the options, if you will....
so .. uh ....
ain't ya at least gonna ask Doug some questions?
or answer a coupla of his ...
hope U already did this thru email. Otherwise ... U don't seem too concerned.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Peg
What you got in mind for cabinetry?
I generally like traditional style cabs but since I've been down here in Austin I have seen 10 to 1 in favor of contemporary cabinets.
They are as common as the contemporary houses that are going up everywhere. Been out Westlake's area lately?
We don't advertise as contemporary cabinet makers but we've sure built quite a few of them.
I would doubt that many of the small cabinet shops around town are even advertising. You've got to do a bit more leg work.
If your interested let me know. I'm sure that I can lend a hand in some way.
E-mail if you'd like, I'll send you some pix.
Edit to add; I just looked at the two links that you posted. Steven Tull does some nice work. QSI is more of a home depot type cabinet shop. They take their existing boxes and fit them into your situation. Not quite full custom, sorta semi custom. One of our shop guys came from there. I think their product is OK but not full custom.
Doug
Edited 3/7/2005 10:31 pm ET by Doug@es
Doug:
Alas, I am squarely in the contemporary camp. I think of them more as streamlined, unadorned, simple. I cringe when I see the traditionals with all the opportunities for dust and crud catching in the fancy raised pannels and picture frame/shaker trim.
I like the flat slab doors, brushed stainless hardware, eurostyle flush overlay...I know, I know...very pedestrian, very Westlake. I could attach a pic or two, but I'm sure you've seen (and created) many varations on the theme.
So I offer a fun alternative idea that would also look swell in the house...the traditional italian-style fitted kitchen. I've included a sample picture below. I could find lots of other examples. I've even seen a recent example (in a magazine) from a home in CA that used concrete for the cabinet surrounds and had the more steamlined flat slab doors/ss hardware. So the only wood parts were the doors and drawers.
View Image
In terms of wood...hmmm...I'll keep an open mind there...I like some warmth to offset some of the sleekness. Not to much grain. A natural cherry is nice.
Smallish kitchen (by Westlake standards anyway). About 14'4" x 16' overall. No island. Huge pantry, though. Still considering options for the countertop material. Open to greatroom & dining, no seperate breakfast room. "Bar" sections overlooking GR and DR. And, (predictably?) stained concrete floors t/o.
I was gonna send this one your way ...
but ya weren't in the poplist ... and I'm gererally lazy ...
etc ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Jeff
Take a look at some of the cabinets that this guy makes. There are a few that would maybe give you some ideas for that Victorian kitchen that your working on.
Course you'd have to run it by a lawyer to see if it was period looking.
Doug
Forgot to add the link. http://www.stevetull.com/
Edited 3/7/2005 10:35 pm ET by Doug@es
that's ok .. I'll look anyways ...
noticed that lawyer didn't exactly follow any of his gospel advice either.
guess function does trump form ... at least on my job site it does.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
For a contempory home, I have to recommend concrete counters.
of course I do happen to make concrete counters.
We also do custom cabs, but we put our counters on top of anything. As far as contempory budget cabs go, the IKEA's I have seen have been something special, and cheaper than what we can produce (but cheaper quality "woods" also)
http://www.lukeworks.com
I've considered concrete, but I've heard that it stains easily and will chip on the edges...we will have stained concrete floors t/o most of the house, so introducing a different material on the countertops might be nice...
I like Schrocks... but I can pick up Schrocks at a significant discount... thus increasing value significantly. Solid construction... though not as solid as the customs I build.
The real question comes down to what you really want and the features you want. Stock cabinets have their upsides such as factory finishes that cannot be duplicated, without SIGNIFICANT cost, in the field;, value ratio; and time considerations. Custom cabs have their upsides such as the practically unlimited feature combinations that a good cab builder can design into the kitchen; solid wood construction, complete control over functioning hardware, design considerations that are limited only by imagination (almost), etc.
If cost is the deciding factor... then factory cabs have a huge advantage (that whole mass production thing is tough to compete with). If quality is the deciding factor... OVERALL it's about a toss up between factory cabs and custom.. with the balance being struck with so many custom cab builders that are trying to compete with the factories. However.... the high end customs... hands down, falls to the side of the customs. If time is the factor... factory hands down. However... if design and integrated function is the primary consideration... then customs can rarely be beat.
I have done the two extremes. A factory set of Schrocks that were reclamations of a canceled order.. bought from an outlet at 30% of the retail cost... and the outcome was beautiful.
I also did a custom cherry and birch combo that would take your breath away. Mentioned in another thread about a funky set that I did with purple-heart and maple... gorgeous... but you really had to have the taste for purple-heart to live with them. Oak set that my wife would do back-flips to have in our house (been on the honey-do list since I built them LOL).
If you are going to live in the house the rest of your life... go custom and get what you want... even if you have to wait a bit longer to be able to afford them. If you are planning to move within the next 5-7 yrs... go factory.
BTW... you may want to fill in your profile to let us know what area you live. There are sources for purchasing that are very regional... so we may be able to help if we have a better knowledge of the region we are talking.
Edited 3/5/2005 9:18 am ET by Rich from Columbus
Very good explanation of some good material!Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
TThey sound great, but no Schrock dealers in the Austin, TX area according to the company. Set of Schrock on Ebay, but they're country style oak.
Thomasville (home depot exclusive cabinet line) are made by Schrock.
Only difference is a slight change in some of the detailing.
Rich, is that schrock's of walnut creek? My brother has some that I think are absolutely beautiful, extremely wellmade. custom too , they drove them out here to ct. for $ 1200 . he priced out cabinets herein ct. 2 bids at $33,000, schrock's of walnut creek $22,000 plus $1200 delivery, amazing! tim
Don't know about the "of walnut creek" thing... but the cabs I get are built in Richmond, Indiana. There also is a cab outlet that carries their overruns and canceled orders.
the ones i'm referring to are in ohio, as good as you can buy
Richmond is right on the Ohio/Indiana line... and one of their warehouses is actually in Ohio... so my guess would be that they are one in the same.
Rich,
I'm up in NW Ohio, and was wondering where the outlet is at that you bought this set of cabinets?
Thanks!
Bryan Klakamp"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
Cabinet Factory Outlet in Richmond for the Schrocks. Especially look at the canceled order area. The stock cabs are OK... just takes quite a while to get through row after row of cabs. Worth it to buy a set that may be oversized for what you want.. then use what you need.
There also is a tag sale at Kraftmaid (not a big fan my self... but some customers like them), just south of Cleveland, on a regular basis. Get there early if you go. I forget the exact timing.. haven't been there in about a year and a half.
For hit and miss... the Pease Outlet in Cinci gets in some decent cabs every once in a while... but be careful of what you are getting... some is good... some are junk. Can't beat the place, however, for doors and finish trim. I found one set of cabs while there getting a few doors for a track-home upgrade... they were a full set of Schrocks that were only one cab short of being an exact fit (sometimes it is better to be lucky than to be good)!
Edited 3/7/2005 11:14 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
I can tell what what "not" to get. They came highly recommended too and are in every magazine.Full page ads in the likes of Archetectual Digest etc etc...
"Plain & Fancy"
The cabs are gorgous but the hassles I've had with them are beyond belief. Worst ever in 30 years. Don't ask!
The hinges were the wrong color, one cab was built upside down, they forgot to send me the inside base corner and the list goes on....totally amazing....specially for what I paid for them even at contractor price. Close to fifteen grand.
They're growing faster then they can handle I've now been told. Amish Country.
Be warned
a...
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
Peg,
Omega makes very nice cabinets. I also like Betch (what we are putting in our home). Of course I may be biased since both are made right here in town. My Betch bids came in at slightly less than the Omega with equal quality. Both Omega and Betch were cheaper than the bids I got on lower quality Kraftmade cabinets at Lowes and HD. I found better prices and far better service going to an actual cabinet/kitchen shop as opposed to Home Depot or Lowes. A cabinet shop with experience in kitchen design (vs the college student at Lowes) can make a huge difference in the usability of your new kitchen.
Regards,
Dennis
I think the best advice so far is to make sure you go to a shop with a competent designer. My carpenter claimed going into our project that he'd never seen a custom kitchen installation with less than 2 major problems. However, our cabinet designere was very conscientious and we had zero problems.
Now, as far as quality brands (note that I'm just a consumer) we looked at many different cabinets and several different designers before building our house. The Omega's came highly recommended and they have custom and semi custom lines. Note that the finish options really affect the price. For example, a simply cherry cabinet can be cheaper than oak with distressing and glaze. Having said this about quality, I think sometimes things are overanalyzed. I have never seen a severe cabinet problem, they all seem to hang there and do their job, if a drawer cracks over time, it's usually fixable.
We purchased Plato custom cabinets and are very happy, and the price seemed very good compared to some others.
Good Luck
I build spec homes in Houston . I started using Armstrong Cabinets several houses ago. There is a showroom here and they ship all over Texas. I use factory cabinets mainly because of convenience and it's a comodity I can interchange parts as needed.I can order the cabinets when I pour the slab and have them in 2-3 weeks, in time to install. Also it has a consistantly good finish that depending on which painter and the humidity or whatever,is hard to acheive. I use their 100% allwood cabinets as I sell against mostly jobbuilt cabinets in my market. Typically I use stained cabinets and painted trim.I don't try to match stains. Check it out at http://www.armstrong.com BTW,my daughters and money goes to UT. I'm an exe. Hookem Horns!