Hello all,
The guy who installed my kitchen cabinets did a good job (I guess) but I have noticed that although the cabinets are level length wise (from one corner of the kitchen to the last cabinet in either direction)…. some are not level from the wall to the front (the wall side is lower). When I say not level I mean that the bubble is just inside the level lines (but not centered ) and in some cases almost touching the line. This translates almost to 1/16 to 1/8 of an inches in some cases.
Is this okay? Would this cause a probelem when the counter top guys come to install the Granite? Can they (will they) shim the low spots?
Should i call the guy back and have him redo everything. I don’t want to be an unreasonable customer or too picky. I guess what is reasonably level anyway?
thanks in advance
Replies
What was the scope of the job?
Installed square and level?
Can you tell where the stiles are screwed together that they are off?
Re. granite, the granite guys will shim as necessary to handle any variances but give them a heads up on it.
If the only way to tell is to put a level on them, then move on.
Make sure the drawers work smoothly before you cut the guy loose though.
Make sure your level is level 1st. If you have the HD plastic special, your level may be off.
Put the level on a flat surface and note where the end of the bubble is. Rotate the level 180* and see if it is in the same relative spot. If it's not, it's your level, not the installer. If it is, I would call the guy back.
I've learned an old saying from a carp I used to work with:"Put that damn level away!"
LOL
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This translates almost to 1/16 to 1/8 of an inches in some cases.
a 1/16!
"......almost touching the line".That works fine. If the bubble DOES touch the line, have the installer come back and do it all over.:o)
"a 1/16!"Hey, cut the guy some slack. Maybe he plans to use the granite counter for calibrating gyroscopes and laser levels, in which case 1/32" rise per foot might indeed be excessive. :)BruceT
h,
put the level in the freezer overnite.
Try again in the morning. Within the lines is pretty good considering the condition the cabs came in.
Even when perfect, the granite boys will apply shims and caulk.
If you're beyond the lines and a pencil rolls off, probably not a good install.
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I would be more interested in whether the fronts of the cabinets are plumb. You need to know where to put the level, it would not necessarily be against a door or drawer front, more likely against the frames or panel edges themselves. As mentioned above, the countertop guys can deal with making their own work level. They probably won't check the cabs, they'll check the slabs!
A sixteenth to an eighth is reasonable, though for stone tops we always get it within a sixteenth.
As long as the tops are in the same plane you are probably ok.
Being in the same planbe is more important than being perfectly level.
If it is off, it's off in the right direction - towards the wall. Keeps the water on the counter and the drawers from sliding out on their own. Really, if it's just a 16th front to back you should be good to go.
1/16th to 1/8th.
Run.
run as fast as you can.
grab the kids ...
really no time for the pets ...
and tell the wife she's on her own.
I'm suprised you were still able to type that.
cabinets out between 1/16th and 1/8th of an inch.
your house will fall down at any second.
that's close to 1/60th of a minute.
run.
If the house hasn't fallen ...
maybe ... just maybe ...
the granite installers can go to the "big shim store" ...
and buy a really ... really ... really ...
fat shim.
just ... maybe ... be possible to shim up the granite that 3/32nd of an inch.
but they're need back up.
and a really ... really ... really ... big truck to transport said shims.
god speed.
I say call him back and have him "redo everything" ... even things he didn't do.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Considering the condition the cabs come in? can you expand.
I Hate white melmine covered crumb board
I say call him back and have him "redo everything" ... even things he didn't do.
LOL... right. Better safe than sorry.View Image
Jeff
On another note, have you heard anything more about the contractor registration.
I went to the state website and the only thing I can find is that we need to be registered before July 1st.
No other info.
I signed up for a 2 hour seminar this friday thru the local HBA chapter so I will know a little more but who knows if it is going to be of any value.
I'm thinking I should just take the ICC test for general contractors and be covered. (May thru July I will be busy so dont want to be dealing with any surprises that will require studying, testing, etc then)
the guys work is fine.he getting worried for no reason.those lines in the bub.are there for areason. although some old levels will give you an incorrect reading.
haven't heard anything else.
I'd be suprised if any useful info is released before the sign up date.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Come on. Were in Pennsylvania, not new jersey.
They gotta give us some info prior to the day we have to be signed up by!!
I've sent the $30 so I'll let you know if I learn anything.
I'm not betting on it but cautiously optimistic.
If they took $30 to tell me I need to fill out a form and send a copy of my insurance policy in, that will piss me off!!
Jeff,
it is really just registration,not licensing like other states.
it's a $50 fee every 2 years,you have to have a minimum of $500,000 in liability, and some other things you must have in your contract.
I guess it's a start
This morning I made soft boiled eggs for breakfast. Three for me and two for my wife. The little devils took off in all directions as soon as I put them down on the counter. If it's any more than an eighth of an inch, I hope it's towards the back!
your problem isn't your CT ...
your problem is the eggs are too runny!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Yes, you are becoming a neurotic customer. RELAX, it will be ok. Been a contractor for 26 years. First kitchen I did the floor was out 2 1/2" left to right. So much for level. Talked it out with HO and then put it all on the floor. Worked out fine. Honest!
They sound fine to me as is.
First before calliong me back you want to know several things before you touch that phone.
Is your level true or is it like 40-50% of the ones on teh racks at big box stores - inaccurate by as much as a sixteenth or more in a foot.
are the cabinet boxes true? I have never seen factory boxes where all six sides will read the same plumb level and square. You have a choice of plumb fronts or perfect tops. The contertop can be shimmed level as it is installed, but you want the fronts plumb.
has your floor settled since the install. if this is a new house, it is highly likely that the floor joists are shrinking as the dry and the floor is settling away from walls. You don't want egg on your =face from trying to blame the installer for any of these problems.
If they look good the doors and drawers line up, and they are all in the same plane, you are good to go.
And damn sure don't waste anybodies time with that level until you have tested it to be able to trust it better than your wife.
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where ...
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>>"are the cabinet boxes true? I have never seen factory boxes where all six sides will read the same plumb level and square....."So true, too often.I installed a run of cabinets in a basement last week. The HO had ignored my advice concerning the ready-made stuff from Lowe's. I got the uppers done, then put the doors back on them, then stood back to take a good look.One of the doors looked like it needed lots of hinge adjustment, so I started looking closer. Turned out that the face frame on that cabinet was out of square by almost 1/2" (cross-corner to cross-corner discrepancy). Thinking that maybe I had racked it while installing, I took it back off of the wall. Nope -- it was the manufacturer's mistake.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
hrh:
Your fears are not misplaced. As a countertop fabricator/installer for over twenty years, I can tell you that many problems start at unlevel cabinets. Almost without exception, countertop fabricators/installers feel that out-of-level cabinets are not their problem. Aside from some shimming, they haven't bid on straightening out your cabinet problems and aren't going to fix them.
Shims aren't bad in the back and appliance edges but who covers them if they show in the front?
I've seen level cabinets on the left of the stove and level cabinets on the right. The tops go in and the customer wonders why the level stove is higher on one side than the other relative to the tops. There's your cabinet man again. He got both sides level, but not level to each other.
You want level cabinets, not just flat, unless you want your eggs sliding to one side of the pan as you fry on your out-of-level cooktop. I've fixed this - a few times.
It doesn't sound like your cabinets are out too far, but you are wise to be concerned.
Kowboy
You could just put some door skin at the wall and some formica scrap half way between wall and front. I bet that will throw it out the other way, though. If it's an L-shaped kitchen it may be more to deal with. If it's a mainly straight run with a short corner cabinet (to an appliance for example, don't worry about it.
Granite installers know what shims are, they can handle it. Some gripe, some don't (usually the older ones don't).
I've installed SOME kitchens dead flat and level, was all proud of myself, and the granite guys would look at me like - so what!LOL
Don't want to make anyone mad here, but it seems like cabinet guys aren't impressed with granite guys, and granite guys aren't impressed with cabinet guys.