Building an two level island counter. The height of the lower counter is set by the base cabinets. The upper counter, mounted on top of a “knee” wall with outlets and a switch plate in the backsplash. The upper counter is intended to be used as a sitdown eating surface. What are the design guidelines for this? Seems the outlets/switches will control the height but that seems a little high.
Thanks
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I've done this at 42 inches (with a counter height of 36") and it lokked and worked well. Just get the bar stools / chairs to fit.
Forrest
The height of the finished counter or breakfast bar as they are called will determine how much room you have left for plugs. Finished height is usually 42-43" at the top of the counter!! w/12" over hang from you knee wall out. If you make it shorter than that you can't get breakfast bar brackets that will look right,(if you use granite).The plugs you put horizontilly for better fit.
Mine's 44" , I'd aim for 42", Not that there's anything wrong w/ 44" ( we love it).
Kitchen counter continues into family room bar, family room sunken 8" = 44"
I think my point was to aim for 42" and let the situation dictate from there.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Depends on your family height & bar stool height & what's comfortable.
Generally 6" difference from one counter to the other.
Here is a couple of pics of mine.
Counter with cooktop is 36-1/2"
Breakfast bar is 43-1/2"
I just finished remodeling my own kitchen and put my eating bar at cabinet height 36" and found stools to match the height. The reason for not 42" You can walk up to the stools and just sit down, no climbing into a higher stool necessary for a 42" top. My neighbor has a higher top and you are constantly jacking your a** to climb into the stools. Also don't buy stools with side arms - just more difficult to get into
I can't understand the logic of climbing up a stool unless of course if you are in a bar where you have no choice.
Recently I have seen dining/eat-in table at 42" and high chairs to match so you see a group of people sitting high up surrounding the table. Weird thinking if you ask me.
My dining table is 42" tall. I'm 6'1", and the taller chairs are more comfortable to sit on.--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat it.
Yeah but the 6" difference can't be all in your legs. :)
A clean way to eliminate any support brackets under the upper portion of the island is to use 1/2" x 4" steel straps welded into a simple frame outlining the typical plywood support. Granite installers love it since it provides a great deal of support.
The plywood top is eliminated altogether. Where the cabinets provide the most support is where any cross straps are welded. Sometimes the shape of the island allows the weight of the stone top to hold everything in place with gravity and no veriticles are needed to bolt onto the island.
If verticles are needed for a top that won't balance on it's own, simply have a few tabs welded of the same material so they attach to something with meat in the island carcass. These do need to be welded securely, since a broken weld could tip the granite top enough for it to come off the island.
It sounds like a lot of steel, and it can be, but buying a 20' stick is less expensive than you'd think and the welds are very simple. Don't get carried away with the welding since the great thing about this thick stuff is that it holds it's shape well if you don't try full penetration welds. Tack weld it while on a flat surface, then add more tack welds until it's stout enough to hold together. Remember, we're not building a D9 Cat so easy on the welds. Design it so most of the strength comes from the uncut portions crossing the island, not your welds.
The granite installer will nominate you for Primeminister, or buy you a beer, or at least think you're weird for going through that much trouble to eliminate the ugly brackets.
Good islanding,
Don
PS Keep in mind the thicknesses of the two counter tops and any framing in your island to prevent the outlets from being too high or low in the gap. I'm currently working on an island and the previous carp had the electrican install them pretty low, which looks funny. Also, many building codes require an outlet that always seems to end up on the end of an island, either up high right under the upper counter top, or it's put down in the toe kick, both usually horizontally.
I used 1/4" x 3" angle iron fastened to the pony wall, which was fastened to the plywood sides fastened to the floor.
I guess I didn't want it to move at all.
When I built that part I didn't know how far my soapstone bar was going to stick out.
Anyways I cut a 90 degree notch out of the angle iron then heated it up bent it to 90 then welded the seam.
I think I can park my truck on it if I need to.
Angle iron was a freebie off the job scraps
All of your electrical boxes in the splash go in horizontally. You'll have plenty of room to do a standard 36" finished counter on your base cabinets, and a 42" finished bar top. Stools should be 12" below eating surface, so you'll use 30" stools here. Remember that you should also allow a 12" overhang on your bar for knee room, or sitters will constantly fight it. Do the allowances right, and everyone will call you a genius.
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...