Kitchen Design Help Needed Please
Yes again….I know I have another thread on this but I wanted to start from a ‘clean sheet’ idea. We’ve decided that the giant windows were too much of a design constraint. I can’t get my mind off of the other design so I need help looking at it in new ways.
What we’re trying to do in this go-round is.
- Fit all the stuff accross the top of the page into the room
- We need to fit at least 28′ of lowers and 23′ of uppers.
- You can not move the walls but the windows can be removed and added.
- Want to be able to enjoy the nice view out the back and the great morning light.
-
Ideally we want one good sized sink and one prep sink with good amounts of counter space around them and the stove.
In this picture we’ve moved the windows up so that lower cabinets can be installed underneath.
The pdf attached would print at scale of 3/8″=1′.
I’d appreciate any help y’all can give the wifes 5 months pregnant and not having the design finaled is holding up a lot other projects that need to get done before the baby comes….
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 1/31/2009 4:38 pm by madmadscientist
Replies
Sheesh, that is hard to scan across here.
How many people, typically, will work in the kitchen? Did I miss a mention of the sill height on the existing windows?
This matters in that the best view location is off to the right, so that'e where the table ought to go. But, given the wall constraints, the table actually could go nicely against the left hand wall, which would allow a two or three "work center" arrangement to the right in a U or an L + penninsula
Now, with more than one personhelping in the kitchen on a regular basis, slip the rang into a penninsula or island, so that pots & the like can be stirred from both sides. Which also alows spotting the sink against a wall (where the drain plumbing is better).
I'd probably start with the fridge & mw (and a potential coffee station) on the 10'3" bottom wall.
But, I might have to think on it a bit more, too.
Okay sorry here's a smaller pic. If you open the pdf in adobe reader you can see the entire thing.
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The window sill height has been moved up to clear the counter top so call it 3'-6".
Usually there will be 2 people helping doing the prep work but when it comes time to do the cooking then thats usually just me.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 1/31/2009 4:18 pm by madmadscientist
There are a great number of advice books on kitchen design, and after going through the steps of designing and building a kitchen with my wife, I'd say most of the advice is sound.
The tried and true triangle principle works. I would think about putting the sink and DW by the Great Morning light wall. It's a long wall, long enough for a food prep area too. I would extend the counter all the way to the 11' 10" wall and include base and wall cabs all the way.
A range could live on the 6'6 wall with a hood exiting through the closet space to the exterior; counters and cabs on either side of the range.
The 10' 3 1/2" wall would be good for a fridge, larder, and plenty of storage.
Without seeing the house I'm a bit stumped on the 11' 10" wall. Perhaps a table with picture window, or perhaps a seated peninsula bar facing into the kitchen. There ought to be a window drawn in that wall, right?
Best wishes,
Scott.
Edited 1/31/2009 12:58 pm by Scott
Hi Scott and thanks for replying...
There are a great number of advice books on kitchen design, and after going through the steps of designing and building a kitchen with my wife, I'd say most of the advice is sound.
Yes thankyou we have plenty of design books looking for specific help on how to fit the space.
Without seeing the house I'm a bit stumped on the 11' 10" wall. Perhaps a table with picture window, or perhaps a seated peninsula bar facing into the kitchen. There ought to be a window drawn in that wall, right?
I left the wall blank because I didn't want to nudge anyone in one direction or another.
Thanks for the input I'll try to draw something up and post it later.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
>>
Ideally we want one good sized sink and one prep sink with good amounts of counter space around them and the stove. <<
My first thought - 10#s of sheet in a 5# box. Especially the "at least 31' of lowers and 28' of uppers"
A few Qs - You said: "Want to be able to enjoy the nice view out the back and the great morning light." Is the back of the house the top of the page, left of the page, or what? What width is the refrigerator? Does the house have a separate dining room or is this THE eating area?
I shrunk the size of the picture so it should be easier to see the labels where it clearly states which side is which...but the good view is the right side of the picture and the good morning light is the top of the picture.
Yes I agree it is trying to fit a 5 gallon hat on a 10 gallon head. Turns out the wife added wrong and we need 28' of lowers and 23' of uppers....so more like trying to fit a 7 gallon hat on a 10 gallon head.
In our first design leaving the windows as is we hit the upper cabinet mark and the lower cabinet mark. The way the wife is counting the lowers though the space taken up by the DW and sink is included in that number...
Yes this room will be the only eating area.
The fridge is 34" wide.
Thanks for your reply.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Dan, two thoughts.
Good light, bogus view-put the glass up high-above cabinets, sort of a clarestory window arrangement.
34'' wide side by side frig? Do you have it? Small freezer and not too spacious fresh side. Growing family?
best of luck.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Designing a great kitchen is even harder than designing a great shop. I have been working on my shop for over three years. Meanwhile, I have renovated much of the rest of the house. The kitchen will be the last project because I can't make up my mind on many critical issues.
I know this probably doesn't help, but maybe you will see that what you are trying to do is even harder than you think.
You have my best wishes.
I did a kitchen the same width and slightly longer. I will tell you the first thing you need to figure is how much room do you need to feel comfortable for your table and chairs. The only option I see for the table is the left side of the room. You can't put cabinets on that side because you will lose to much due to the angled entry. Is a new slimmer table an option also. Set your table and chairs in the room and start measuring and let us know.
Dave
Time to regroup and let the Ego have a rest.
You are in over-your-head and although you know enough to give a thumbs up/ down, you need direction and coordination. BreakTime is a swell place for a great many things but trying to cull these needs from us is asking and expecting a lot. Those who respond want to help but your requests are too broad for the site-specific uniqueness you desire.
You need on-site professional advice. This costs money but it can be the best investment of your budget in the grand scheme. This doesn’t have to cost a lot of money though. If you have a contractor already selected, they may be able to advise you based on their experience. Another way is to hire a Kitchen Designer – perhaps one affiliated with a manufacturer. Often they have the design cost included in the cabinet cost (whether you use them or not).
After accepting this solution to your predicament, you find that you’ll have a wealth of new information to further improve your Kitchen.
Please do not interpret any disrespect, but (as Rummy once said) “You don’t know what you don’t know.” Plus, you need more than a few email exchanges. You need someone sitting next to you and standing in the room to massage the ideas to minimize inefficiency and crossover and maximize utility and aesthetics.
Some general ideas:
Make countertop height 37” or even 38”.
Keep your scribe/ filler panels to a minimum width.
Pay close attention to the clearance required for Ref door and adjacent whatever. Mock it up before installing.
Don’t scimp on outlet locations or lighting. Both will make cooking so much easier.
Garbage cans – self sealing, open, on slides or tilt-out. Depends on how you use it.
No such thing as a too big sink. Undermount only. I am assuming you are using a monolithic material.
Consider cork flooring.
No spice drawer unless spices containers are top labeled and stand straight up rather than at a 30* angle.
Undercabinet light should be dimmable. I like strip/ track lighting with xenon lamps.
I hope this helps,
Frankie
Flay your Suffolk bought-this-morning sole with organic hand-cracked pepper and blasted salt.
Thrill each side for four minutes at torchmark haut. Interrogate a lemon.
Embarrass any tough roots from the samphire. Then bamboozle till it's al dente with that certain je ne sais quoi.
Arabella Weir as Minty Marchmont - Posh Nosh
All right here ya go I thunk about it and here's my best first draft on a different kitchen scheme.
Here's the overview this view gets distorted a bit so it makes things look closer together than they are. There is actually 3.5' between the peninsula and the cabinets.
View Image
Picture the table and chairs as a U shaped built-in with a pedestal table. Notice the new french doors and the pantry cab against the wall there. The sink is now between the two windows which are in their original spot put moved up. Notice also the new windows by the table.
Here's a shot of the stove wall I like how this turned out mostly except the blank wall to the right of the stove bugs me.
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Here's a shot of the fridge wall....this I don't like so much.
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The fridge is big and sticks way out making getting into the upper corner cabinet impossible... I don't have a good spot for the fridge yet...
Here's a shot of the new french doors and the new pantry cabinet.
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I think it sticks out kinda far but the wife likes it....
I am eager to hear y'alls opinions...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 2/3/2009 2:20 am by madmadscientist
A few comments:
Normally the main sink goes in front of a window if it is on an exterior wall.
How much width have you allowed for your table and chairs? It's looks kinda tight but I know you said the top perspective distorts things a bit. This is a key dimension.
BTW - how many feet of upper cabinets do you have there? Lowers?
How high are the ceilings? Not really that pertinent, I'm just curious. Looks like maybe 10' in the pics? Have you thought about how your are gonna get that hood vented? If the ceilings are 10' and you want to go straight up with it, you need to check to see what the hood comes with. Is there a ceiling joist in the way?
Hi Matt and thanks for replying,
Normally the main sink goes in front of a window if it is on an exterior wall.
Yep we know, but the wife had a strong opinion on this she likes the idea of having a wall there for a drying rack-I'm impartial the sink is surronded by two huge windows so...
How much width have you allowed for your table and chairs? It's looks kinda tight but I know you said the top perspective distorts things a bit. This is a key dimension.
Yes I agree that little table and chairs graphic is set to the size where actual my size (6' 200#) people can sit in those chairs. But remember that table and chairs area is actually going to be a U shaped wood built in seating with storage and a pedestal table. I just couldnt do that with my cheap-o design program.
How high are the ceilings? Not really that pertinent, I'm just curious. Looks like maybe 10' in the pics? Have you thought about how your are gonna get that hood vented? If the ceilings are 10' and you want to go straight up with it, you need to check to see what the hood comes with. Is there a ceiling joist in the way?
Wow I'm surprised you got that from the pic yep we have 10' 2" ceilings.
Venting the hood is definately going to be more complicated than putting it on an outside wall. The vent duct is probably 8" so I imagine that we will run it straight up thru a false cabinet then luckily the floor joists above are 2by10's and I plan to run the vent horizontally and vent out the side wall if allowed. If not I can turn the vent vertical after its behind the kneewalls in the attic and vent it thru the roof?
BTW - how many feet of upper cabinets do you have there? Lowers?
You know I did that design late last night and havent had time to measure it.
thanks,
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
The best place to vent the exhaust hood is through a gable end, or just through a side wall as long as it is not too close to the eve soffit. On the other hand, you can go through the roof if you want to - it will be fine, but what I always say is "why put a hole in a perfectly good roof". And yes, if you are getting a 36" gas range a hood to go with that will probably need a 8" exhaust duct. Could even be a 10" depending on the hood you pick.
I had missed the part about the 'U' shaped seating.
Another try--
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Edited 2/3/2009 6:42 pm ET by Mike_Maines
I think you are trying too hard. I would just line the perimeter with cabinets and put a big table in the middle of the room. I've lived with peninsula kitchens and they really cut the room it two and make everything feel too crowded. I like Mike's treatment of the refrigerator and the stuff on the diagonal entrance into the room. From the refrigerator I would put the range in the middle of the long wall then turn the corner with cabinetry and put the sink on the back wall with the view. Then I might consider shallower pantry cabinets on the wall where you now have the range. Another thing I might try would be the fridge where Mike has it, and the stove/range on the diagonal at the next corner, with the sink halfway in between them. Then continue around the corner from the range with more cabinetry that cuts off at a 45 degree angle as it approaches the other exit.Steve
Oy, trying to hard? Have you ever tried to design a kitchen with your wife in your 'forever house'. A kitchen that you plan to build with high quality material to last 100yrs?
I agree the peninsula cuts the room in two but thats the point for the wife she likes the idea of delineated eating and cooking areas.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Have you ever tried to design a kitchen with your wife in your 'forever house'. A kitchen that you plan to build with high quality material to last 100yrs?
Why,yes I have, and this is what we wound up with-- a large open space with cabinets around the perimeter and a capacious table in the middle of the space, the the antique stove on the diagonal in the corner. The eventual plan is to replace the table and chairs with an island once the dining room addition is built, but it works very well the way it is.
Delineated spaces are all well and good if you have the room for it. Believe me, I've designed , built and lived with something very close to what you've drawn there, and the effect is claustrophibic in the long run.
Another thought on the seating nook--my grandma had one of those in her 4-square kitchen. As a child I thought it was good fun, but it's kind of a pain in the neck from the grown-up perspective. Gotta climb over each other to get in and out.
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Ha that's a nice looking kitchen
Unfortunately it looks likes your kitchen is much wider than mine. If I were to ring the walls with cabs there would not be any room for a table that wouldn't be completely in the way.
The room is long and skinnyish which is why its making sense to us to put it at an end.
thanks for the reply.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 2/4/2009 2:49 pm by madmadscientist
Daniel,What's in that room behind the stove wall? Is it possible to poach into that space? You could recess the range into a big grotto kind of thing. And/or you could bury the refrigerator in it.Steve
What's in that room behind the stove wall? Is it possible to poach into that space? You could recess the range into a big grotto kind of thing. And/or you could bury the refrigerator in it.
That room is going to be our home office. I am at least going to recess the stove into the wall the depth of the wall. Our actual stove does not protrude as far from the cabs as the one in the model.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Do NOT put the dishwasher where you have it. Someone will inevitably turn around, forget it is there (with the door down) and fall over it. Please take this one seriously - it is dangerous there, and traps the person at the sink.
Jeff
Do NOT put the dishwasher where you have it. Someone will inevitably turn around, forget it is there (with the door down) and fall over it. Please take this one seriously - it is dangerous there, and traps the person at the sink.
That is a good point.... do you have a suggestion as to where to put it?
There is uh ~3.5' between the sink and the DW dont' know if that qualifies as being trapped.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Daniel,
I've got to agree with the other posters here. The kitchen is a main hang out area and you are trying to cram it plus a dining room into what looks like the smallest room on the floor. Heck, the kid's got a bigger room than the kitchen!
The top floor has a really nice feel to it - good layout and nice space. First floor's got a great layout - super shop! Don't shortchange yourself on the most expensive - and most used! - room in the house. You will regret it until you end up redoing it (when, not if).
I'd start by seriously looking at the office - 10x14 is quite large. Depending on what you will be doing in an office it's not too hard to tuck one into a much smaller space.
What's the deal with the sun room? Can that serve as the dining nook? Especially if you are putting the doors onto the deck, that could be a great location. Push the office wall back 4' and you've got a 10x10 space and can use the whole kitchen as a kitchen.
That could work pretty well, including giving you room to go with 30" deep base units (I'm a huge fan of that extra 6").
Just my 2 cents.
Wayne
ah I see what you are saying, move the south wall on the office back 4' and use that bigger area as the dinning area? Thats an idea. How we going to get to the spiral stair case down to the bottom floor then?
I'll have to think about that. Though I gotta say I'm liking the layout of this version. Lots of counter space and seperate work stations, two sinks, plenty of tall pantry storage. Only thing it doesnt have is quite as many upper cabs as we were hoping for.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Get rid of the dining room
Get rid of the dining room
I can see it now, me the wife the baby all standing over the sink eating all of our meals!! Mmmmm, bachelor living at its finest.
But seriously there really isnt enough room on this floor to have a seperate dining room so the kitchen has to be eat in.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
How did the original/previous owners manage meals? Just a table in the kitchen?John
How did the original/previous owners manage meals? Just a table in the kitchen?
Ha ya the original owner....was a couple logs short of a cord.....
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This was the 'kitchen' when we bought the place.
I don't think that there had been a meal prepared in the house in many years...the neighbors said he ate one meal a day at the local senior center....
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 2/5/2009 2:06 pm by madmadscientist
Great photo. That's a classic kitchen. They don't make them like that anymore -- and it's a good thing!
Billy
Is there another place you could put the home office? What's in it? A lap top and paper storage can go anywhere. I think it would be much better to square up the room, I don't think those angled areas work well in a tight area. I also agree with one of the earlier posters about not jamming in elements if there is not adequate room for them. Would a single glass door work instead of a pair of french doors?John
Is there another place you could put the home office? What's in it? A lap top and paper storage can go anywhere. I think it would be much better to square up the room, I don't think those angled areas work well in a tight area.
The home office has to have seperate desks-computers for me and the wife. THe angled areas are weird but they are kinda a 'feature' on this old house so I'm not super keen to 'square em up'
Sure a single glass door would work but if I can get a small pair of french doors they will intrude less into the deck when open.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Like the three windows across the top. The angled fridge in the corner is interesting also I'll have to see how the space plans out.
Not sure about the sink sorta right in the way of the walkway... maybe it will be convienent or maybe it will be in the way.
If the pantry cab on the stove wall floor to ceiling?
Thanks for the second design.
I'll try to post another design tonight.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I was picturing that sink being accessed from the stove side, so not really in the walkway. Sort of though.
Pantry cab that caps the end of the stove wall would be tall, maybe all the way to the ceiling.
I wouldn't say this design has the most usable space but it's more fun anyway! I'm picturing done up just a little Burningman/Mad Max/Monster House style. Just a little.
dan.... are you doing all that on Chief ?X1 ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
No I'm doing these in Floor Plan 3d. I havent figured out how to work Chief that well yet. I can't figure out how to do a dang snap shot or a walk thru?
Aggravating...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Okay here's a slightly different tweak on the design. This shot is bigger to show what's outside the kitchen.
Overview shot-
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We added a window in the dining area and got rid of the two double hungs for one big double hung.
Fridge wall
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Got rid of the upper cabinet return and made the uppers fridge depth. This gives us a nice space for the coffee pot and toaster.
Stove wall-
View Image
Added the shelves to the right of the stove and moved the MW away from the stove.
Here's a shot with your angled fridge idea.
View Image
We don't like this as we lose the coffee pot counter space and wow there just seems to be a big dead space behind the fridge...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 2/4/2009 2:16 am by madmadscientist
Describing the eating area on your plan as a "buffet" alcove makes a big difference--what looks like an obtrusive peninsula and a very cramped seating area actually becomes a pretty cool space.
I'm not a fan of having the dishwasher that far from the sink--does DW have to have windows on both sides of the sink, or would she be happy as long as she gets her dishrack? If you slid the sink to the left you could make room for the dishwasher next to it, or vice versa (as on my angled plan).
How do you feel about open shelves? I know you've gone over all this before but that was many threads ago.... The asymmetrical stove wall might look better with some openness to it, same with the big cabinet to the left of the fridge.
Do you need those french doors there? Isn't there a back door right next to that?
Can you remind me where the two doorways go?
I'm not a fan of having the dishwasher that far from the sink--does DW have to have windows on both sides of the sink, or would she be happy as long as she gets her dishrack? If you slid the sink to the left you could make room for the dishwasher next to it, or vice versa (as on my angled plan).
Ya I agree hadn't thought of it like that. Wife likes the DW near the table so things can go right from the table and into it but really we scrape the dishes into at least the trash first so moving the sink to the right might be a good idea.
How do you feel about open shelves? I know you've gone over all this before but that was many threads ago.... The asymmetrical stove wall might look better with some openness to it, same with the big cabinet to the left of the fridge.
Yea shelves to the right of the stove for cook books and the like is probably a good idea.
Do you need those french doors there? Isn't there a back door right next to that?
Can you remind me where the two doorways go?
No we don't need them but I'm liking the idea of having a small set of french doors there and then the tall deep pantry cabinet where the other door is. Uh the doorway on the stove wall leads to the sunroom and the spiral stair down. The french doors would lead out onto our back deck. Don't need two doors to the outside here so this is just the 'new idea'
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
That inside corner to the right of the fridge is baaad though.... I just designed one that was sort of like that, with more like 30" of counter next to the fridge...and it's still too deep and dark. In my own kitchen I have what you drew... trust me it's not nice.
What if you switched the fridge and the stove on your plan? That would make a better inside corner....
That inside corner to the right of the fridge is baaad though.... I just designed one that was sort of like that, with more like 30" of counter next to the fridge...and it's still too deep and dark. In my own kitchen I have what you drew... trust me it's not nice.
Yea I agree this is just version 1.0 We are going to look into removing the upper cabinet on the window wall and possibly making the upper cabs as deep as the lowers?
Switching the stove and the fridge is an interesting idea but I'm not sure I can recess the stove like I want to recess the fridge.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Or maybe with getting rid of the upper cabs on the window wall I could move the fridge into that corner? Then I wouldn't have to recess it really and it wouldnt be in the way of the entrance to the kitchen. Never had a fridge in a corner though...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Nice rendering.Quick comment: If the view past the dining area is nice, how about one large window instead of the two singles?Scott.
Yea I went with the two windows because I wanted to mirror the two windows on the other wall. But actually for shear strength reasons I'm betting the plan check engineer is going to want me to go with one single window that is slightly smaller than the two.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I am eager to hear y'alls opinions
Not bad. (In fairness, when I worked at the cabinet shop, I saw 4-5 kitchen plans a day, 5 days a week for too many years--not many of those were good kitchens.)
Table is probably ok as a built-in, it's toast as free-standing table & chairs though.
Take the MW away from the range. Build it into either the pantry or the cabs next to the fridge. The why on that is in who and when the MW is used. It's really nice to have the storage for MW 'stuff" near to hand.
Also, you want storage pertainent to the range near the range. You probably do not want to be jostled by people MWing kids' meals while you are stirring a roux, or tending the chicken marsala.
Take and run off a couple (dozen) copies of your plan. Give the pertainent parties in the house a pen of a distinctive color, then "put stuff away" in the kitchen. Include food and dishes. This might take a couple tries. Once there is a half-agreed-on answer, take and "make" some typical meals in the layout. (Caution, this will cause some rearranging.)
Me, I like having the dishes where the dishwasher is. I might have a cab between the windows, then but the DW under that, scooting the sink to one side or the other (left, like as not on your plan).
If you will swap the small sink and te fridge, you might get a better wall on that one side, too. That, then would let you have a slide-out trash can handy tp both sinks. (This kitchen is tiny, er, "intmate" otherwise I generally want sinks as far apart as possible, so that they are better used.)
Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Daniel,
Here's an attempt. Think outside the box a bit. Four work areas, a feeling of openness when you enter the room (no big heavy boxes on either side), extra deep cabinets at the sink to better match fridge depth and because a raised shelf at the back is a great way to keep stuff close to hand but off the counter.
My "big idea" is something I always try to get clients to do: an area of shallow pantry cabinets. For all the stuff you normally keep in upper or lower cabinets but can stand taking a couple extra steps to get to, they are the most efficient use of space.
If you include the pantry as upper and lowers, and the corner cabinets, I think I met your space requirements.
Sorry for the drawing quality. Just a quick sketch on my lunch break--
Edited 2/3/2009 2:14 pm ET by Mike_Maines
Edited 2/3/2009 2:14 pm ET by Mike_Maines
Edited 2/3/2009 2:20 pm ET by Mike_Maines
Wow looks amazing Mike!!!
Oh wait, did you delete the sketch?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
It was too big--here it is again:
View Image
Hi Mike, this is in response to your mms.jpg sketch.
Its interesting the extra deep bottom cabinets.
Losing the window for the fridge might be a problem with the planning dept.
On the pantry cabs do they all the way up to the ceiling?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer