I didn’t want to hijack Basswood’s thread about the solid surface counter job, so I began this new one.
I don’t think I am charging enough to do kitchen work. Take a look at this.
What would you charge to assemble and install this kitchen? All cabs are frameless, and are knocked down. You will do the assembly.
Summary:
- 7 wall cabinets
- 11 base cabinets
- 2 island end panels (factory-built)
- 2 cabinet end panels
- 1 built-in reefer cab (sides and top rail)
- 1 tall pantry cabinet
- Flat crown above everything touching soffit
- Light rail under all windows
Countertops, appliances, lighting, all by others.
Replies
2800
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Cal You are Low bidder!!!
You WIN!!!
Really!!!
I aint never did a kitchen full of knockdowns so I don't know what I would be getting into..
"And the Grinch, with his Grinch-feet ice cold in the snow, stood puzzling and puzzling, how could it be so?
It came without ribbons. It came without tags. It came without packages, boxes or bags.
And he puzzled and puzzled 'till his puzzler was sore.
Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before! Maybe Christmas, he thought, doesn't come from a store.
Maybe Christmas... perhaps... means a little bit more!â€â€œAnd then the true meaning of Christmas came through, and the Grinch found the strength of ten Grinches plus two. “
Max Rules!!!
Ahhhhhhh Master
Now see I do...
28 pieces x 100$ =2800$
Ya lernt me sumpthing!!!
I'm taking the rest of the year off..."And the Grinch, with his Grinch-feet ice cold in the snow, stood puzzling and puzzling, how could it be so?
It came without ribbons. It came without tags. It came without packages, boxes or bags.
And he puzzled and puzzled 'till his puzzler was sore.
Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before! Maybe Christmas, he thought, doesn't come from a store.
Maybe Christmas... perhaps... means a little bit more!â€â€œAnd then the true meaning of Christmas came through, and the Grinch found the strength of ten Grinches plus two. “
Max Rules!!!
The saving clincher would be the large markup on the cabs themselves.
And why is it that gene asks questions like this and rarely comes back with the punch line.
Gene, how much are you doing the assembly/install for?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Gene is playing poker while you are playing golf
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't give a ####, golf and info. What do you think I'll be doing this aftn?
Pity the colorado-ans.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I dunno if you were talking to me...
yer 2800 sounds good...
but I would be tempted to add ~500$, mebbe a grand because it sounds like these are High $ (selling) units and NOTHING ever goes smoothly pour moi..."And the Grinch, with his Grinch-feet ice cold in the snow, stood puzzling and puzzling, how could it be so?
It came without ribbons. It came without tags. It came without packages, boxes or bags.
And he puzzled and puzzled 'till his puzzler was sore.
Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before! Maybe Christmas, he thought, doesn't come from a store.
Maybe Christmas... perhaps... means a little bit more!â€â€œAnd then the true meaning of Christmas came through, and the Grinch found the strength of ten Grinches plus two. “
Max Rules!!!
Conditions unknown....guestimate....$3500.
Happy
Holidays
$3500ish. Lot of variables and unknowns but if we are just doing the cabinet install then that figure is good. DanT
$99,999.99
I hang cabinets for $60/unit. If i'm building them probably $125-$150/unit. Figure between $700-$1000 will get your counters, sink, DW, & disposal installed.
The island, i'd have to get a better feel for what you're doing there.
$3900
I hate knockdowns
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
$50.00 plus an all expenses paid trip to Lake Placid for a week. I really need a place on the lake and can you wait for water skiing weather in NY?
From this kitchen, as well as all the others in this condo, you could watch the water skiiers the whole time you're working, if you were here July through September. The condo has its own set of private docks. After work, you could just blast straight off the dock on your single ski.
Right now, though, you can watch the sled dogs mushing across the ice.
From this kitchen, as well as all the others in this condo, you could watch the water skiiers the whole time you're working,
Just how much work do you think I am going to do for $50.00, especially with distractions like people waterskiing? : - )
Does this mean you're working for the view?
Water skiing season up here starts 4th of July and ends Aug 1. Labor day is first day of ice fishing.
I've got the AC on in my office today.
I've got the AC on in my office today.
Oh screw you!
Happy
Holidays
Gene,
I've been on a family trip and just discovered this thread.
I would charge $2390...so I'm low again (though not in my market). The scenery sounds like a nice bonus.
Edited 1/2/2007 7:04 pm ET by basswood
2 guys 2 days...
3500 sounds good.
Wow! That's fast. And the billing rate! Higher than my plumber, who bills at the highest trade rate in this town. Your profile is blank, so I cannot see where you operate to get a rate like that. NYC?
How many KD cab kitchens do you do in a year? The system we use requires us to either build toekick platforms for the bases, or to attach adjustable legs to them.
This shipment will be three large skids and one skidded box, about 42w x 24h x 98l, totaling in at an estimated 8,850 pounds for everything. It'll take two of us almost two hours to get everything off the truck, carted in and down to the lower floor where it's going, and shaken out.
We'll then be going until about 3 p.m. doing all the carcase assembly, and maybe we can get the floor and walls snapped out before quitting time.
With any luck, we can get the carcases hung on the walls and bases fixed to walls and floors by the end of day two, then wrap up on day three doing door hinging, hanging, drawerfront attaching, aligning everything, and cleaning up.
My best guess is for 48 manhours, truck in to truck out, all tools packed and on board.
If you can get $2800 or even $2500 and it's new work, or for a builder, I'm moving to Lake Placid.
Round my way (PA) you could get two english speakers to do it for $1800 and you could probably get Hose-A and Hose-B to do it for $1200 plus some rice and beans.
What would you charge to assemble and install this kitchen?
Gene, f.o.b. the damn site.
How much are you billing? or is it a natl. secret?
thanksA great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Ever notice, some conversations with Gene are one sided?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Paul, all the time.
Getting an answer out of Gene is like pulling teeth.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Rhetorical AND one sided!
C'mon Gene; your turn![email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
If the timing works out as I projected, we will bill it at a couple hundred under Basswood's figure. So, except for the spanish guys with their rice and beans bonus, I guess we are the lowpriced dummies.
The labor is the loss leader part, because it is transparent. The money is made upfront with the design and trades coordination (mechanical and electrical installs, soffit locations, lighting layout, etc.), plus the margin on the materials package.
With the stuff in the room, what will it take you time wise to assemble/install?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
A couple days, plus a bit of a third. If skiing is good (it is snowing hard right now) we will do mornings on the mountain, and three afternoons at the condo site.
You gotta remember, we are a couple of old farts, trying to retire.
If skiing is good (it is snowing hard right now) we will do mornings on the mountain, and three afternoons at the condo site.
Seems to this Dirty South warm weather hillbilly living in Texas that skiing is only good starting July 1 when water is involved but it is not frozen.
You gotta remember, we are a couple of old farts, trying to retire.
My kind of guys, I start out slow and taper off as the day goes on. Take up my previous offer ($50.00 and all expenses paid trip to Lake Placid). I'll pay for the gas in the ski boat and the beer.
Give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, teach him to fish and he wil buy a boat and spend the weekends drinking beer on the lake.
tx
40 bucks an hour to install cabinets?
Fer shure. The SSA will cut my retirement benefits if I make too much.
In addition, there are well-qualified all-cash, no-1099 jacklegs all over town who will do it for a lot less.
Edited 12/30/2006 11:54 am ET by Gene_Davis
Well then, looks like you answered your own question.
Your kitchen install price is not to low.
in other words, "Based on the information provided..."LOLmy answer was based on what I would CHARGE my high paying clients.i would be paying about 2900 or so to subs, so they would be CHARGEing about the same as others here.I think this is on a second floor so getting everything up there and back down cleaned up is a day of the job. I'd have around sixty hours in it, I believe. Someone doing knockdowns every day of the week could do better, I'm sure.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This next one, when we are putting it together, we should do time-lapse photography, edit it together as a video, and pop it up on YouTube.
Title it "The Kings of KD." Or, "Old Farts Knocking."
BTW, have you gone to YT and seen the hilarious video, "The Kings of MySpace?"
Better to do it here so I can see it.
Utube is worthless to us dial-uppers
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've made the call paul.
Cable.
The future is mine.
Look out tuesday.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"The system we use requires us to either build toekick platforms for the bases, or to attach adjustable legs to them."Price just went up!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
In NYC it would probably start at $120/lf, just for cab install.Edit: BTW, you probably could have water-skied up there last week.
Edited 1/5/2007 2:55 pm ET by TGNY
And some did. The front page pic in the yesterday's Lake Placid News showed a skiier, full wetsuit, slaloming on the lake.
Glad you enjoyed the Mirror Lake Inn. We go to their Cottage Cafe for Friday happy hour when it seems the whole town turns out. In fact, time's getting close right now.
We liked Mirror Lake so much, looks like we will return in Feb. (unless we go to Vail). Maybe we can catch up at the Cottage then. Would like to see some of your work. Had some good chats with the ex-Chief of Police, who serenaded us on the piano every evening.I drove up to Whiteface on the Sat. before X-mas to check on the hill and saw people golfing, needless to say I wasn't very optimistic, but we did manage to get two days of skiing in.
Gene,How 'bout posting jobs or pics of finished work rather than ideas and thoughts on theoretical jobs?Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with woodEdited 1/5/2007 10:00 pm ET by stevent1
Edited 1/5/2007 10:02 pm ET by stevent1
I really like to plan work to the nth degree, and being retired and just a hobby builder, my projects have long lulls in between.
Here 76629.39 are some pics from the last full-house contract. Since then, I've been doing occasional guest stints, plus some kitchens.
And if we don't get our winter back so skiing can happen, I'm gonna go nuts!
Gene,
you mentioned "reefer cabinet"....?
Now I've been a custom cabinetmaker for a good few years but never encountered this type of cabinet on any "legit" job, so unless it contains what I think it contains the prices quoted by others are reasonable.
Gene,That is really nice work. Your right about carefull planning.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Just wonder why anybody would use the knockdown cabinets? With so many cabinet companies flooding the market with the China line of cabinets, you could get the same Junk imported from China ( full boxes) for the same price as knockdown boxes.
When you have some freetime do a search on Cabinets from China. The national builders around here are all switching to the made in China lines, their finding out they can save about 25% over the Junk bottom of the line boxes that they have been using.
Not that this new stuff their installing is of any better quality.
I think Gene is using a fairly high quality custom line of KD cabinets, not the big box variety. Scherr's maybe?
We use Scherr's, and the kitchen and bath packages we get from them include any and every custom feature we can dream up.
Frame-and-panel header board with the panel beaded, for a refrigerator box frame? 14-deep upper cabs, done with doors that overshoot the bottoms by 1-1/4" and a behind-rail to hide the undercab lights? In-cab puck-hole preps and the xenon fixtures that mount into them? Special microwave-housings for drawer-type MWs built into basecabs? Sliding door cabs? I could go on forever. You name it, including custom-sized-to-fit everything, and it all comes completely error free, every time.
Why in the world would we want to buy our cabs any other way?
Do you save any money with the RTA cabinets?
A) What did the Cabinets Cost?
B) What did it cost to assemble the Cabinets?
C) Then the Cost to install?
Not that there is anything wrong with the way you do it! Am just saying that just like other areas of Construction, were getting Flooded with Spanish labor force & Made in China products!
All I can say is "Look-out Whitey"!
Edited 1/6/2007 11:07 am ET by Troublemaker
Gene, that Scherr site looks interesting.
How do their prices compare to whatever comparable you could get locally ? Are you even, + a percentage, or cheaper?
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Jim, it's hard for us to get apples to apples pricing comparos, because the kitchen hallucinations we put together always include features that are off-the-wall custom.
We've gone and gotten check pricing, using a mix of custom for the funky stuff, and stock cabs where we can do it, and always end up with Scherr's being less.
The limit we have with Scherr's is that stained finish choices are few. No glazes, no antiquing, no distressed whip-n-chain stuff, no milkpaint with rubbed off corners, etc. Just clearcoats and simple stains, plus solid colors. They'll match any color we need.
Leon Scherr is fantastically responsive to RFQs, usually returning with a complete quote workup including all proposal drawings in two working days or less. We email him our layouts in Sketchup . . . I'm sure you've seen some of the models for kitchens we've done.
We've got a painted one coming, and I think we'll do a little photo essay, showing it from palletized delivery to final tool carryout, and post it here on Breaktime in the photo gallery.
I'd be very interested in seeing that photo essay. i'm debating building the boxes for my new home but scherr's looks like it may be a great option, and will free me up for other projects, furniture, etc.
Gene, thanks for the reply and I hope you do post a series. You are doing a lot of neat stuff, especially for a retired guy!
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Who is taking ot the trash, & what is the extent of the job beyond the cabinet build up and install.??
GC cleans up everything, and nothing beyond the cab work.
$3400.00 would be about right What part of the country? I'm In So Calif.
Read the rest of the thread. You'll see what's going on.
2500, taxes extra.
How much are you going to charge?
A followup, FYI.
In another thread about pricing a set of cabs (a wall of units making up an entertainment center) someone posted a link to a very interesting resource.
The magazine Cabinetmaker periodically runs a pricing survey given to their readership (pro cab shops) to see where things land.
The link I followed showed results of 37 detailed entries to the pricing of a specific kitchen, with about the same scope as this one here in this thread. See post #1 for a pic of this one.
Of the 37 price entries, all broken down per the requirement, I threw out all that had countertops included. Our scope does not include tops.
I was left with 14 prices, and of those, I threw out the two high numbers ($19,405 and $21,900) and the two low ones ($8,765 and $6.180), then averaged the remaining ten numbers, getting $13,826.
That price average of $13,826 included installation, which averaged $1,488.
The kitchen that the mag used for the basis of the quotes had 20 drawerfronts and 30 drawers. Total run of cabs against walls (the island is not included) was 383 inches. This one of ours has 367 inches, but a longer island, so the two are very comparable in scope.
I was left with 14 prices, and of those, I threw out the two high numbers ($19,405 and $21,900) and the two low ones ($8,765 and $6.180), then averaged the remaining ten numbers, getting $13,826.
That price average of $13,826 included installation, which averaged $1,488.
The kitchen that the mag used for the basis of the quotes had 20 drawerfronts and 30 drawers. Total run of cabs against walls (the island is not included) was 383 inches. This one of ours has 367 inches, but a longer island, so the two are very comparable in scope.
I do not understand why you dropped the two high and two low prices. Keeping them in the equation would have increased the average price to $13,912 a difference of $86.00.
Considering the install alone was just a bit more than 10 percent of the total price on average, leaving the numbers in would have little affect on the average install price.
"20 drawerfronts and 30 drawers"? You mean 20 door fronts?
And 30+ ft of cabinetry............that is wall and base correct?[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Eric, sorry about the "fronts" switch. I meant 20 and 30, drawerfronts and doors, respectively. If you want to see all the dirty facts, go to the link that Sancho put in his post, earlier in this thread.
I was arbitrary in throwing out the highs and lows. But, as you can see, including them doesn't change the average, appreciably. Throwing out highs and lows is common in bid analysis. It's the "let's get rid of the crazy numbers" theory.
As to footage and whether it includes base and wall, the answer is no, because I included TOTAL RUNS, which happened to include ranges with hoods above, and fridges, which included some cabs above in one kitchen, and no cabs but a full built-in surround arrangement of wood and molding detail.
What I thought was most interesting was the install price average, which came in far below what most Breaktimers put on the kitchen I posted the pic of.
To me, that indicates that the Breaktimers that posted install prices, aren't captive installers for pro cab shops, but independents. Some, with a whole lot more independence than cab shop installers. Or chutzpah.
Gene, your initial question in post one was for assembly and install.
The stuff you just posted from the mag, I'm guessing didn't include assembly.
Where's the similarity in price and scope of work?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
You are right, Cal. My comparo did not include assembly.
In the mag article, the average hours for install was 31, at an average hourly rate (sell, not pay or cost) of $48.
This kitchen should take us a total of 8 manhours to assemble, thus the average price should go up by a factor of something over 25 percent.
That brings installation and assembly to a figure more like $1,872.