I’m remodeling my kitchen and after gutting it have several questions. When the vent for the sink was installed they notched two of the cripple studs under the window and the king stud (there is no jack stud). I need to replace the studs. Is there a way I can re-frame this using 2 by 4’s? The vent will be replaced but will be in the same location. Can I double up the studs and use a stud shoe (Simpson HSS2-3-SDS3) ? Does the code allow this (I’m in Los Angeles and will call the building department tomorrow to check) ?
In the same area there’s a section of the bottom plate and floor that’s rotted and needs to be replaced. The section of rotted floor extends under the bottom plate. This is an exterior wall. I need to replace a section approximately 4′ by 5′. How do I support the wall to remove the floor underneath it? This is the gable end of the house. On the outside of the house there’s a 4″ by 6″ strip of trim that wraps around the house ( picture attached). I’m thinking of supporting the wall by wedging 2by4’s here to support the wall. Does this sound OK?
My final question is regarding the installation of hardwood floors. I removed a tile floor and am replacing it with hardwood. There’s about a two foot section of the room that is cantilevered out past the foundation. There’s nothing underneath it. It’s exposed to the outside air. Do I need to insulate this area (the floor over the crawl space is not insulated).
Thanks for any help,
Matt
Replies
I'm remodeling my kitchen and after gutting it have several questions. When the vent for the sink was installed they notched two of the cripple studs under the window and the king stud (there is no jack stud). I need to replace the studs. Is there a way I can re-frame this using 2 by 4's?
Yes, of course.
The vent will be replaced but will be in the same location. Can I double up the studs and use a stud shoe (Simpson HSS2-3-SDS3) ? Does the code allow this (I'm in Los Angeles and will call the building department tomorrow to check) ?
Yes, in fact, I doubt it would be required. Usually the inspector just wants to see a dottie plate, to make sure no nails end up in the plastic dwv pipe.
In the same area there's a section of the bottom plate and floor that's rotted and needs to be replaced. The section of rotted floor extends under the bottom plate. This is an exterior wall. I need to replace a section approximately 4' by 5'. How do I support the wall to remove the floor underneath it? This is the gable end of the house. On the outside of the house there's a 4" by 6" strip of trim that wraps around the house ( picture attached). I'm thinking of supporting the wall by wedging 2by4's here to support the wall. Does this sound OK?
That floor doesn't look so bad in the picture. They make a stabilizing product just for that situation, a liquid that you pour on, and it soaks in and hardens. If you really have to replace it, I would probably just temp some 2x4 bracing under a beam at the ceiling.
My final question is regarding the installation of hardwood floors. I removed a tile floor and am replacing it with hardwood. There's about a two foot section of the room that is cantilevered out past the foundation. There's nothing underneath it. It's exposed to the outside air. Do I need to insulate this area (the floor over the crawl space is not insulated).
Yes, absolutely.
BTW, thanks for including pics!
And I would seal the bottom of the overhang from bugs, etc. Nice pattern on the shingle siding. Are those wood shingles?
Hi Huck,Thanks for the info. Yup, those are wood shingles (Redwood barn shakes). They're a pain to find, and expensive.For the vent line it was my understanding that you couldn't bore through two successive double studs. Once I add in the jack stud I'll have four double studs that will need to be bored through. I was hoping the stud shoe would allow me to do this. Won't an inspector call me on this?For the insulation is rigid OK? Is a vapor barrier of any kind needed?Thanks again
You should definitely call Building and Safety, but it's my understanding that you'll flunk an inspection in Los Angeles if you send a vent or drain line through the Jack and King studs. I avoided this problem by pulling the cabinets out 3 inches into the room to create a space for the 'dirty arm' to run outside the wall and behind the cabinets. Once it passed the King stud, it dove back into the wall where it hooked up with its vent. Again, there are rules about how far that line can run before it is vented. Five or six feet maximum (can't remember which) with a 2 inch drain line. I'm not sure of your circumstances, but another possible option might be to install an AAV valve. A reputable plumber here in Los Angeles swore up and down to me that it is legal here, but that should be verified. Many plumbers don't recommend them. And even if it works, it makes noise. Not so great, so I found another way.
I called the inspector to ask about this and he offered to come out and take a look before replacing the plumbing. He had the same answer. I couldn't go through the jack/trimmer and king studs. If I did he wouldn't pass it. I even had a structural engineer say it was OK to do if I put a simpson stud shoe over the hole - but no deal.
The ceiling's straight now. The ceiling dipped 1 1/2" from the exterior wall to the interior, so I ended up sistering 2by4s to straighten it out.I have a question about my headers. The headers consist of the top plate, cripples (about 11") and two 2by4s laid flat (see picture). Is there any benefit to filling the bays to create a stronger header? I was going to take 2 2by4s, sandwich a sheet of plywood, and fill up the bays over the window. The entire wall would then get covered with plywood. Will this (adding the 2by12') strengthen the header?Also - does anyone have any experience with LED lights? I'm thinking of installing the Cree 6" light in my kitchen. Anyone have them? Do you like them?Thanks,Matt(how do I put pictures in the body of the post instead of attaching them?)
beautiful house mattt ( I stutter once & awhile )
as someone else said bringing that plumbing out into the room say three inches ( and your sink if I remember that is what the venting is for?? ) - the bumped out elevation of a sink/cabinet can be a nice featuremost evident characteristic i see in your abode is you have very insufficient framing and attractive features like your windows etc..
My 1900 built house is the same way but I have some sheathing applied at 45 degrees to bolster its shortcomings - yours is cleats to provide for nailing your siding & not much more and that gets me to your headersdifficult for me to tell the width of your double hungs because your layout on framing looks like 12" centers but could be / most likely be 16" centers
so yes you mentioned 2X12" material? ( if span is less than 8' 2 - 2X8s sandwiched over 1/2" plywood works ) put together your 2 - 2X12s and using your jack/king studs mount that above your 2 2X4s on the flat and then lift that slope out of the center of the olde "header" and hold it up to the new real header w/ some fancy simpson nailing plates
don't even remember your main questions but can't help but think your inspector is going to be drawn to that from get go
that beautiful bank of windows near your front door looks to be lacking real header toohard to put all together but I'm thinking the header trim on ext. over windows is falling / failing due to movement over century of your insufficient header
keep up good work
Hi John,Thanks for the post.
I think saying that the framing is "insufficient" is being kind. There are four banks of windows in my kitchen. Two span six feet and the other about eight. None of the openings have jack studs or true headers. The "headers" are toe nailed into the king studs. I've added jacks to all but one of the openings. Without demolishing the walls and re-framing them it's not realistically possible to replace the existing headers. I'd need to remove the exterior siding and a 4by6 piece of trim that wraps around my entire house. What I'm wondering about is would I gain anything by putting full height blocking between the 2by4s in the existing header? The entire wall would then be sheathed in plywood. Thanks,Matt
I'm going to try to dry out a little while eating my hot soup & cheese & apple before getting back to it for afternoon
reflecting on your situation I'm thinking my inspector would flat out not accept anything less than code enforcement for that opened area around the windows ( and aren't you in earthquake/ Calif country/ )what you really have is a kinda tiddly winks framing structure stitched together by a shingle batten on shingle all complimented by an overdose of levity where too much gravity may have brought you downmy approach on taking it from unsound to very sound would be to let in a 2 X 10 or 2 X 12" header ( hopefully you have room ) between your masquerading header and the plate above where your kings end
then the whole wall header and above sheet w/ 3/4 plywood ( A face for good surface for paint ) nailing the area around your window like you would a shear panel w/ 16d nails
you'ld be approaching a box beam ( yours more like an open box )so hard not knowing context/ dynamic but in that it is your house I'd tend to do as outlined above taking pictures along the way and then focus w/ inspector on areas below window
don't know if you can let in some headers in other open areas before inspector visit cuz those are glaring red flags ( potentially!! )
good luck
Yup, I'm in earthquake country. That's why it's a little disconcerting to see how the house was framed.
The code (according to the building inspector) only applies to the new construction that I do. The wall is original to the house (1916). As long as I don't alter the structure my removing or replacing a part of it the inspector won't make me fix it. If I alter it, it has to adhere to existing code. I don't know if he'll allow me to let in a single 2by 12 into the existing header. I'll have to check with him. That's why I was hoping I could install blocking into the existing header.
blocking will get you no where in this instance
you need span strength from king to king & no joint in between
he should love your letting in 2 X 12"
that you have a dialogue w/ him is most important & fortunate
I talked to the inspector and he's agreed to allow me to let in a single 2 by 12 into the existing "header". Do I need to fix the sag in the existing header before doing this? How would you jack this up? The wall runs parallel to the ceiling joist - I don't see how you would be able to jack this up and slip a header in. The sag is about 3/8 of an inch. I was planing on cutting the 2 by 12 so that it fit in the existing space (I'd cut it to fit the sag - it would have a slight curve to it). Is this OK?Thanks,Matt
hey mattt you a lucky man w/ a reasonable inspector
don't worry about lifting the olde "header"
let in that new 2X12
can't remember what you are using to sheet interior above window; sheetrock, MDO, A face plywood or what??
just get some extra nails in both the olde header and the new genuine header in that 1 ( or 5/4" ) X 6 or 8" header casingalso don't worry about curving your new one to shadow the olde
just whole 2X12" and not to worry about concave void in center - let it be
your house now maintains its first legitimate header
cheers!
Thanks John,
The entire wall is getting covered with plywood then drywall.
So skip cutting the 2 by to fit the sag? The cripples in the header are 11" tall. So I'm ripping a 2 by 12 to fit and leaving a gap in the middle at the bottom and on top on either side (the 2 by 4s on both the top and bottom of the "header" sag)?
Thanks,
Matt
Another question,I'm having a wood floor installed. The majority of the sub-floor is 3 1/4 tongue and groove. I've screwed down the loose areas (1 5/8" deck screws). Would it be advisable to screw down the entire floor? If I do - do I need to worry about the screws acting as a wedge and splitting the floor joist (I've been putting two screws into each 3 1/4 board)?Thanks,Matt
I'm thinking you are concerned with spaces you will see above & below this new header you will install
do not be concerned (caveat to follow)
I do not know span king to king stud
I'm going to guess 64" so what you want at least is a full 2X8" ( i know you are talking 2X12" and that is best yet but I'm appreciating now you have 11" header to plate above that and there are curves that might only provide for 9 1/2" net ) and your left jack stud looks good but what is happening on right? Can you get whole header over jack cripple/blocking to right? What is that 2X4 face I see up there?get the biggest 2X4 header in that amorphous rectangle you have there and then shim those open areas above the header say every footwith your plywood sheathing you will have a good "open" box beam
best to have one sheet of plywood spanning header region and above and nail off well preplanning locations of kings, new & olde headers, plates, cripples, wires, pipes, etcon flooring question assuming you are putting screws through 3 1/4" material to each joist
my experience w/ ancient wood is all good to go but predrill for each screw
Huck's got your covered, but I just wanted to comment on the house -- looks really neat from what you've posted. (Wouldn't mind seeing a pic or two of the whole house.) Hope you plan to keep it original as much as possible.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll post some more photos once I get the chance. We're trying to keep it as original as possible (within reason/and budget). Redoing the kitchen is a step in that direction.I talked to the code desk about the stud shoe. They pointed me to the codes on notching and drilling - a hole can be 40% of the stud width or 60% of a doubled stud (not more than two consecutive). Whether I can use the stud shoe is up to the individual inspector. I guess I'll have to wait until I can talk to him. The rot isn't so bad in that area, but in others at least 1/2" of the sub-floor is rotted through. It looks like dry rot to me, which I was under the impression needed to be removed. Is this true?
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In preparation of drywalling the ceiling I'd like to make sure the ceiling joist are aligned so the finished ceiling will be flat. How do I go about doing this? Do I find the ceiling joist that's lowest and match the others to this? How do I determine this? I've tried using a straight 2by4 but the room is 19 feet wide so it doesn't seem practical to do it this way. Is there a more accurate way?
How do I level the joist? Drywall shims? Sister 2by4s onto the joist? If I sister the joist will I have a problem fitting insulation in?Thanks
One old school way to do it is to use string lines.
You would make a series of lines that are a certain distance down off the ceiling.
Say an inch. Then you cut a block an inch to check distance for the lines.
You want the lines as tight as you can get them so they don't sag.
"There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
I use a straight edge ripped from an 8' piece of plywood or osb. That and eyeball. If you have a big high or low, it should show up. High, shim it down, low, use a planer.
5/8" rock has less "ripple" to it than 1/2". A good finisher goes a long way also. Use a strong light at an oblique angle to look for lows or highs.View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
If you find a local masonry supply store you can buy a mason straightedge - basically a 1 1/2" x 4" (+/-) aluminum rectangular tube up to about 12' long. Very stiff and straight.
Jeff
Tack a block of 2x4 flatwise to joists at each end of the room and stretch a string tightly between them so the string is flush with the underside of the block. Measure the distance between the string and underside of each joist. You'll quickly see any variations. I think it's easier to level with 1x3 strapping, just using cedar shims to level the strapping relative to the string.
Depends on how far out you are. If it's serious - not just a high or low spot here & there on each joist (shims), but a case where joists are not level with each other, sagging, etc., you may find it easier to sister straight 2X4s or 2x6s onto the sides of the joists so they hang down a bit to make a new, level, surface. I now do this with a 360° laser which makes the job a snap, but you can do it like I used to, pre-laser, with a water level and some strings. You just need to get a level line on the walls all around the room and work from that.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Had to do this for my entire house, since the ceilings were +- 2.5" in places. Easiest way is with a laser. Set an arbitrary level line and walk the joists with a tape.If you're going to sister, look at using light gauge steel studs. A lot easier to handle overhead, and dead straight. Also consider using RC1, this will also help smooth out the ceiling as the RC1 will flex to level.Z
Disclaimer:I'm not a plumber
Is the sink the only thing on this vent? Are air admittance valves allowed in your neck of the woods? Maybe you could eliminate the need to drill/notch studs. Just a thought.