Hi all,
Of all the tools I have I don’t have any shop type tools. I would like to put together a small shop, and eventually expand it but I have limited space for now. Several issues back a small knockdown shop was featured in an article (sorry I am not sure what the issue was) and I would like to put together something like it.
I was wondering what your alls suggestions would be for a small contractor type table saw, or larger radial arm, planer, jointer, etc. The thing that makes me kind of nervous is I would like to get the best woodworking results that I can but I can only afford a certain amount, and I only have limited space. Will I be dissappointed in the level of finish with some of the smaller tools. I don’t need the best because my skill level is going to grow with the shop and something would be better than nothing, but I don’t want to waste my time or money.
I would appreciate hearing your alls thoughts, and approaches to this subject.
Chris
Edited 9/24/2003 11:18:24 AM ET by CLWEBB
Replies
A few (unrelated and perhaps rambling) thoughts for you......
You might want to post this question over at Knots. Lots of folks over there are doing fine woodworking on a shoestring, in very small spaces.
Either learn how to joint and plane wood with hand tools, or plan on getting a jointer and a planer. Without these (skills or tools) your quality will never get past mediocre.
Understand that it is quite possible to make truly fine pieces without electricity -- its been done for centuries. The power tools that you see can make some things easier, and some more accurate. But none of them actually change the possibilities.
The most useful and versatile stationary power tool for woodworking is the table saw. Get the best on that you can afford. Put it (and other power tools) on a wheeled base if space is a problem.
Good luck.....
I have a basement shop, and I'll admit for being a basement shop, it is fairly large, although it is constrained by no less than 6 lolly columns supporting 3 different carrier beams, and my wife's insistance on shelving for storage (potato chips in the shop do come in handy, I've dicovered.) I've used a Delta contractor saw for almost 15 yrs now, and other than upgrading the fence, I may drool for more, but don't really need it.
Ditto the previous post on the jointer. I finally got tired of my 4" Shopsmith jointer and upgraded to Delta's 6" pro, a vast improvement. I can even straighten out a board now!
A router table is almost a prerequisite these days also. I made mine (and it's larger than my shaper) but size only matters if the thing isn't bolted or clamped down.
Your collection of toys will grow with your abilities and desires (not to mention stretch the limits of your wallet.) I've accumulated lots of tools based solely on their need for the project at hand. Rarely will I have a need for a tool, buy it specifically for a certain project, and never need it again.
Good luck in for new hobby/endevour. I hope your wife is as patient as mine has been. She may need it.
Much depends on the type of "shop work" you`ll be doing. Are we talking furniture making, or prefabbing for remodeling projects?
I`m going to assume the latter as we`re in the FHB forum, and keep in mind that there will be times you`ll want to transport and set up on the job.
I purchased a Ridgid 10" table saw a while back. I was a bit leary, never having worked with their tools. I highly recomend it, especially if you can get the deal that includes the rolling knock down stand, as I did.
I`d avoid a radial arm saw for now, being as space and monies are an issue. A quality sliding compound miter will serve its purpose. I`ve got a twelve inch Makita that I can`t live without.
Lots of guys rave about the miter saw stands...I prefer a bench top set on folding saw horses which enables me to do more than merely miter at a single work station... if space is an issue.
There`s an article in this months FHB on pocket hole jigs...I`ve got the Kreg that I use for everything but furniture.
Again, if space and money issues are major concerns right now, a quality plunge router and router table are indespensable....forego the shaper and buy a Bosch.
I`ll check back should I think of anything else.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
One of the great changes I've seen over the past 30 years is the evolution towards smaller, more portable tools.
The sliding compound miter saw, designed to be carried by one person has pretty much replaced the radial arm saw, which is fine if you can set it up and leave it in one place, but still not easilly moved, and they are pretty tempramental.
The assorment of routers and router accessories available today has likewise made shapers less common for today's carpenter. I haven't seen a reversible router yet, but that's probably the one significant advantage of a good shaper over a router in a good table (maybe the stability of a large cast iron machine would be another advantage).
Those 12" portable planers do a great job for light planing and sizing and they've been around for a dozen years or more. I keep waiting for my little Makita to die, but it just keeps screaming along.
I guess the one tool I haven't seen made truly portable is the jointer. But that is pretty compact for a stationary tool.
I agree with the idea that for a small shop smaller, more portable tools and wheeled bases for the larger tools help make the most of available space.
As long as we're talking shops, I'd like to mention dust extraction and air filtering. I'm sensitive to those issuses because I have asthma. But even if I didn't, I think I'd recommend buying a table saw first, a dust extraction system second, and a good air filter third; even if you are not allergic to it, fine sawdust is a serious irritant to your lungs and sinus cavity. There are plenty of options commercially available for undr $1,000.00, is your ability to breath clearly worth that?
Came back to say that the article you are asking about, about a knock down shop, was written by John Carroll, the same guy who wrote the book "Working Alone". It was maybe a year ago or so in FHB. You might track him down. He posts here once in a while, when he's not busy digging out from under his house (was it to enlarge his shop?). He's a real good guy and has plenty of great advice.
Edited 9/25/2003 8:06:05 AM ET by jim blodgett
Thanks every one for the good advice, I would like to use the shop for everything from remodeling to finer woodworking whatever the limits of the equipment I buy will allow. I have done a fair amount of remodeling on my house and other type work albeit difficultly with out a table saw. I have routers and many other portable tools, a compound mitre etc. and it is a little emabarassing to get this far along and not have the ability the larger tools afford. All I know is I have to have the ability to dado, rip, shape wood, rabbet, joint, plane, etc.
I also took the advice and posted a similar discussion over in knots with some added info. In reading diffferent reveiws of machines I am getting a feel for the good and the bad. I am still torn between the portable ridgid t. saw or a more fixed contractor saw, the only requirements being a good fence and 25+ right rip capacity, and a decent dado capacity. And I am still undecided as to a router table which is a must. If any one has more opinnions on brand and model choices feel free to chime in.
Thanks again for the info.
Chris
Edited 9/25/2003 9:12:25 AM ET by CLWEBB
I am severly limited in space and like to do similar things as you. I have taken the Dewalt portable mitre stand, DW 723, and attached all of my bench top accessories sets of the attachment legs. A single pair was included with the saw. This allows me to rotate these items on this stand in lieu of a single bench top. I have my Makita table saw on a Rouseau stand and this suites my purposes well.
John Carroll's article was in the Sept. 2002 issue, #149, p.106. I was just re-reading that article the other day. My jobsite shop is a lot like the one featured, except I use folding sawhorses. I like John's idea of using a 5-panel door with the panels taken out for a table. A lot of guys use hollow-core doors for benches. They are light but can't take much abuse.
I've done a fair amount of jobsite woodworking, and although it's always easier to do first-rate work in a shop with big tools, with the newer portable tools, a Rousseau stand for a portalbe tablesaw, a collection of clamps, and inventive use of jigs you can do pretty much anything onsite.
The basic tools are a good portable tablesaw in a stand with outfeed table, a sliding compound miter saw, a portable planer, a router table, and Delta's little portable jointer. You can't flatten big doors on it, but that little planer works great for smoothing out rough edges or shaving cabinet doors. Looks like a toy, but works well IMO.
When you want to do more serious woodworking onsite a contractor's saw is nice. I have a Delta with a 30" Biesmeyer that I can bring to jobs when I want to, which isn't often because I can make do with the truly portable tools 99% of the time.
Rockler has come out with a lot of jigs that are well-designed for a portable shop. Some are geared more towards hobbyists, but I have gotten a lot of use out of their cup hinge jigs and router table accessories.
I like John's idea of using a 5-panel door with the panels taken out for a table.
Just a suggestion.....I built a "ramp" out of PT 5/4 x 6 decking to help get my tablesaw in and out of the van. Basically, its two six foot peices of decking spaced to accomodate my saw base wheel spread, held together by two shorter peices attatched perpendicular at either end. Set atop my saw horses it acts like a bench such as the five panel door. Its PT, so I don`t have to worry about it being left outside and it cost next to nothing so should it ever get trashed, I won`t much care. (I`ve been using it two years already.) Works especially well for pre-cutting sheet goods prior to working on table saw.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Yeah, I made a similar table out of spruce 2x3's which works fine since I mostly work indoors. I still like John Carroll's recycling though. I bet his table weighs less than either of ours.
Here's my two cents. A table saw is the first thing I'd go for. 10" is, I think, the best size for what you describe. Radial arm saws are hardly ever used anymore. There was a recent discussion in Knots about table vs. radial, and table was the near universal recommendation.
As an alternative to the sliding compound miter saw, consider a non-sliding one with a larger blade. Compare the maximum size cut it can make with how wide you think you need and compare prices.
I don't recall anyone yet mentioning a bandsaw. You can rip much more safely on a bandsaw, especially with difficult boards. Plus, you can resaw (for example, slice a 3/4" x 6" board into two thinner slices). For ripping dead parallel, though, the table saw and fence is better. And you can do curved cuts much better than with a jigsaw, assuming your work can fit in the throat. You'll need different blades for these operations, of course.
For a jointer, 6" is a good size, and for a planer, the 12" portable planers are quite good. You can make up the cost of these in what you save by buying rough cut lumber.
One final comment on dadoing. The wobble blades are useless, the cuts are too rough. Don't waste your money. Either dado with multiple cuts on the table saw, use a router, or buy the good dado set (but they're $200 -- too much for me).
Making tables and tools on wheels can help maximize space in a small shop.
A pair of good sawhorses are really handy for holding lots of boards, or making those first few rough cuts on plywood. I usually make the first plywood cut with a circular saw on horses, then the smaller pieces are much easier to handle on the table saw. The folding plastic sawhorses are better than the ones you make with 2 x 4's.
Back to the table saw, you could do without the miter saw for quite a while if you make a crosscut/panel cutting jig like Norm uses on New Yankee Workshop or David Marks uses on Woodworks.
The Ridgid table saws were mentioned before and I would like to add my endorsement. I bought their TS-2424 and then found out that there was a newer TS-3612 available. I took it back after dealing with the tool manager at my local HD and ended up with a very satisfactory deal on what I believe is an excellent saw. They have a newer version out now that seems to have some improvements and the cost is still $597. Their fence may not be a Bies. but is rock solid! Tools purchased by Dec 31 will have a lifetime warranty. The Herculift mobility base works great if adjusted per the directions.Everytime I use mine I love it more!
I would take issue with the poster saying that the wobble dadoes are worthless. If building heirloom quality furniture/cabinets they might be lacking but for general use I find them acceptable. The bottom of the dado may not be totally flat but for a lot of purposes very good enough. I agree with that same poster that a good router setup will do a great job also.
Ridgid has a very good website and forum that pulls no punches about quality and gripes about the equipment. And like BT it has a pretty good bunch of guys that share their vast (and sometimes halfvast) knowledge.
Would you mind posting a link to that forum?
My curiosity is piqued...
I've been to the Emerson website and don't remember seeing it.
Thanks.
http://www.ridgid.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
Good hunting, Bob.
What you need, my friend, is Taunton's brand new 2004 tool guide...
But the tools and shops issue of fine woodworking is coming out soon too, and I think there's another knock down shop in it.
You'll probably want that too.
One happy assistant editor
Take a look at Festo's ATF 55 plunge cut saw and guiderail system and the vaccuum combination, especially if you are planning on working with plywood and other man-made sheetgoods.
Their sanders are also excellent, especially with the vaccuum.
I recently bought a selection of their tools because I have a basement that isn't 100% suitable as a workshop.
http://www.festool-usa.com/portando/index.cfm
". . . I would like to get the best woodworking results that I can but I can only afford a certain amount, and I only have limited space."
Comical statement in that you could ditto that remark for some 10 million men in America!
Can't be of much help as I am currently wrestling with very similar questions. However, I think the question becomes easier to answer once you decide on the tablesaw. Everyone I know who has a shop tells me the same thing, "the tablesaw decison was the question that took two years to answer"