Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Aug 16, 2002 07:18am | #1

   I haven't used this product yet, but I'm assuming they are just applying an old siding standard. ( It's one that I don't often agree with because of too many variables like youmention)

   That standarad assumes that most doors and windows are installed to a design that keeps all their header trims at the same elevation all the way around the house. For the bottom edge of the lap siding or the shinglke course to align with the top of the trim casing, it does a better job of shedding water away and doesn't look too bad either.

   The problem with this is that too many homes, both very old and very new have a lot a different elevations for the windows and doors. I have seen too many shingle jobs where the installer tried to obey the rule as though it were cast in stone and they would get their own stones cut off for disobeying it, with the result that siding runs looked like a wave on the seas or as tho' laid by a drunken sailor without his land legs. But they always lined up to the top of the window, come hell or high water.

   Useing metal flashing, Vycor, caulks, and tarpaper in the right combination behind the siding makes this a healthy guideline but not a necessary rule, IMHO

   Excellence is its own reward!
2. 
   DHambley2 | Aug 16, 2002 11:35pm | #2

   Elcid,

   I Hardi'd a house last year. The window tops were not exactly in-line with the door frame tops so I used the window frame tops as a reference. If you cut it wherever it needs to be over the door frames it doesn't end up looking odd or anything. You can rip the Hardi with a skillsaw or shears pretty straight. It's easiest to line up the battom edge of the Hardi right over the metal flashing over the window.

   Darrell

1. 
   FastEddie1 | Aug 17, 2002 03:10am | #3

   Piffin, the mfgr of Hardie plank doesn't care where the courses layout...I'm asking the question because I have seen references either here or in the mag about making it look 'right'.  And if I'm reading your answrer and DH2's answers correctly, you're saying two different things.  He says to line up the bottom edge with the metal flashing...I read that to mean the siding goes on first and essentially lays on top of the frame, and then the 1x4 trim is applied on top of the siding.  You say to line up the bottom with the top of the trim...I take that to mean that the 1x4 trim goes on first, then the siding.

   It's not a big deal, but if there is a style that looks more correct, I'd like to do it that way.  Looking through my Graphic Standards 7th ed, I can't find any refernce to the issue.  According to the installation instructions from Hardie, either way is acceptable, and that applies to corner trim as well...it can be applied first and the siding die into the trim, or the trim can be applied over the siding.

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Aug 17, 2002 12:29pm | #4

   no horizontal trim over any siding..

   you have to make up a story-pole and decide where your courses will fall out... if you want alignment you may have to alter the trim of one or two elements so they will all be on the same level line..

   not a lot of hardfast rules... more like halfassed rules..

   the best rule is plan it out and know where you're going.. get a laser or transit and mark a reference level line all the way around.. consider your alternatives.. make your final adjustments to the trim and then apply your siding.. if you get it wrong ,don't worry about it.. it will only bother everyone who sees it for the next 150 years or so.. after that it'll be "historical"..Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

3. 
   Mongo | Aug 17, 2002 02:05pm | #5

   My take?

   Align the bottom of the siding with the top of the window/door trim. If windows/doors aren't equal, pick your poison. Essentially, you should have the top of the window trim. On top of that goes your dripcap/flashing, on top of that goes the siding.

   Now, measure down to the bottom of the bottom window trim/apron. The bottom of the siding (butt edge) should align with the bottom of the bottom trim/apron.

   Now, figure the exposure for the rest of the claps that will lay between the top and bottom of the window. If, for example, the height of the window from the top of the dripcap/flashing to the bottom of the bottom apron is 69 3/8ths inches and you were hoping for 4 1/2" of exposure, round the 69 3/6ths number to get 15 courses with 4 5/8ths inch exposure.

   Now measure from the bottom of the window's apron to the water table, or to the bottom of where the butt piece of the first run of siding will fall...down by the foundation. If it's 36", divide by 4.5 and you get 8 courses at 4 1/2" exposure.

   Do the same from the top of the window trim to the frieze board, of the bottom of the windows on the second floor...whatever.

   Your numbers may not work out perfectly. You can fudge an eighth or a quarter here and there, shifting from one exposure to the next all at once. Or, you can graduate the exposures to fudge any differences. Ogten times gradually shifting the exposure looks more pleasing. As long as it's consistant around the house it'll look proper. And as Mike wrote...it'll eventually look historical.

   I'm sure you've seen graduated exposure on gable ends of historical housing. With no overhangs, often the bottom courses of clap siding started with minimial exposure...say 2"....and worked up to 4 or 4.5 inches over the first few courses of siding. This was done to allow the clabs more wood to weather due to water splashing on the siding during rain storms.

1. 
   Snort | Aug 18, 2002 04:24am | #6

   We usually go from the window tops, cause there's usually more of them than doors. Note I say usually. I have done some houses where the doors were the predominant feature...and a water level is our choice and another option for getting things started, it's got that around the corner thing going for it...