Replies

1. 
   NickNukeEm | Mar 23, 2003 01:07am | #1

   Do not use the panel raising bits in a hand-held router; the results could cost you large chucks of flesh.  There are more router table plans out there than there are terrorists.  Some sources for plans, tops, or whole tables are:

   A&I supply (ai-supply.com)

   Hartville Tool (hartvilletool.com)

   Highland Hardware (highlandhardware.com)

   HTC (1-800-624-2027)

   Veritas/Lee Valley (leevalley.com)

   Pricecutter.com

   Rockler (rockler.com)

   Seven Corners Hardware (7corners.com)

   Toolcrib (amazon.com)

   Woodcraft (woodcraft.com)

   Wood Haven (woodhaven.com)

   Any of these will offer whole tables, just the tops, fences, or accessories.  If you want to go the build-it-yourself route, search any woodworking magazine past issue index and you're sure to find something.  The March issue of American Woodworker is practically dedicated to building a new table with all the bells and whistles.  I built my first table almost 20 years ago from plans published in an early issue of Woodsmith.  The table sagged, so my wife bought me a Freud table as a birthday gift 10 years ago.  I've altered the fence and enclosed the base, but it's still going strong (though not used as much since that same wonderful DW bought me a Jet shaper for our 21st anniversary in January!)

   There's enough out there to make your decision a difficult one, and that's probably a good thing.

   One aside, I use a 3+ hp router on my table for the large diameter bits.  Maybe someone else can tell you the PC690 is adequate spinning one of those humongous bits, but it seems slightly underpowered to me.

   Good luck. 

2. 
   IMERC | Mar 23, 2003 01:50am | #2

   Dave...

   A run away large panel bit has a nastier attitude than a run away chain saw. Don't even entertain the notion that you can free hand one. PLEASE!!!! Seen the aftermath.

   I use either a 1915 EVS Bosch or a PC 5202 EHD. Both table mounted. The PC is in a horzontal panel router. [might be a little more than you're looking for] The Bosch (3 1/4 hp) is in a table and does just fine. I tried a Bosch 1615 EVS (2hp?) and it proved to be a wuss.

3. 
   RW | Mar 23, 2003 02:13am | #3

   I'll third or fourth the don't try it freehand notion. Building your own table is simple, and if you're a 20 year carp, you could knock one out in a couple of hours. I used the plans in the book Woodworking with the Router, but most of the plans you find in mags are not substantially different. Spend money on a good switch you can knock off with a free leg. Don't use just a lightswitch like is often "recommended". I'd tell you to build a fence with a tall back and a means of attaching a vaccum hose right behind the bit. This will help keep the table clean so your boards aren't skipping over debris. The tall back will let you use featherboards as hold-downs on your panels so you don't get wavy wavy with the world. A cross cut sled is also in the book, you can make it out of scrap hardwood, some 1/4" ply, and a De Sta Co clamp. Use that for your coped ends and back them up for no tearout. You sure it's a 690? Thought that was the 1 1/2hp, the 3 1/4 Speedmatic has the soft start and variable speed. Only reason I mention is you don't want to try to spin a mushroom in a horse and a half router. Happy spinning.

   " If you kill a man, it is a tragedy. If you kill a million, it is a statistic." - Josepf Stalin, attributed.

1. 
   BillHartmann | Mar 23, 2003 02:56am | #4

   "you could knock one out in a couple of hours."

   How about 5 minutes, if you take a coffe break <G>. I went to an auction where a guy retired from making cabinets in a barn. He had a piece of plywood and two holes with a pair of routers mounted. One with the cope and one with the stick. And a couple of 2x4's clamped on it for fences. The whole think sat on a pair of horses. Did not see what he used for the the bigger pannel raising bits.

   " You sure it's a 690? Thought that was the 1 1/2hp"

   After waiting too, too long they finally came out with an upgraded version with VS and a quick release clamp for the height adjustment. I think that it is rated at 1 3/4 hp. Will have to take small cuts.

1. 
   Lefturner | Mar 23, 2003 05:24am | #5

   Thanks to all for the input! I knew that I couldn't run that bit by free hand. Just needed someone to back up my opinion. I've gotten two major gashes in my carrer and thats two too many. Gonna make a new base now and put it up-side down in my work bench. And yes it's the 690 @ 1 1/2 hp. Thanks again for the great advice.

1. 
   DougU | Mar 23, 2003 05:56am | #6

   Dave

   If you are going to use the 690 you are going to have take multiple passes and you will definitly have to slow the thing down, I think that you said it had multiple speed? Do not run the panel raiser at full speed, you will think it is going to take off, I know from experience. I think you already got the jest that not to hand hold the thing!

   Dooug

4. 
   GHR | Mar 23, 2003 05:18pm | #7

   If you are going to make a table. Make a table.

   I used two layers of BC 3/8" ply for a 2'x8' table top. It is simple enough to cut recesses for a router or two and then glue and screw the top together.

   Add 1x4 braces and legs. Add switches/recepts for power underneath.

   Now you have enough room to work.

   I got the room built. How do I get outside?
5. 
   RussellAssoc | Mar 23, 2003 05:26pm | #8

      I'm sure it goes without saying, use only a 1/2" shank.

1. 
   Sancho | Mar 23, 2003 06:35pm | #9

   I would make a RT but PC does make a RT. Its all set up for what you want to do. Its pre drilled for any PC router and runs about 129 bucks.  

   Darkworks:  The French "Cheese eatin surrender monkies"..Grounds Keeper Willie

6. 
   Steve1 | Mar 23, 2003 11:34pm | #10

   a 690 with varaible speed? and soft start?

   my 690 doesnt have either and the thought of putting half a pound of steel and carbide in it scares the **** out of me!! and hand held? no way!!

   for best results you need a 3 hp variable speed machine IN a table!!

1. 
   BillHartmann | Mar 23, 2003 11:50pm | #11

   Porter-Cable 690LRVS 1-3/4 HP Variable Speed Router

   http://makeashorterlink.com/?V2B155EE3

1. 
   Sancho | Mar 24, 2003 12:55am | #12

   Wow I just learned something..I didnt know they had a VS 690...wow 

   Darkworks:  The French "Cheese eatin surrender monkies"..Grounds Keeper Willie

1. 
   BillHartmann | Mar 24, 2003 02:18am | #14

   Yes, but way too late.

   They should have come out with about 5 years ago. I have the 690 and plung base. I put it together before they came out with the kit, but was able to get good deals on it.

   And while 690 is the "standard" it is outdated and if I was buying a replacement today I would very seriously looking at the newer Boosch and others.

7. 
   arcwood | Mar 24, 2003 01:03am | #13

   Is that panel raising bit vertical (about 1 3/4" diameter) or horizontal (3 1/2" diameter). You can spin the vertical bit with your PC slowed down a bit.

8. 
   goldhiller | Mar 24, 2003 03:00am | #15

   I'll also vote for ........don't try this "free-hand".

   It's not that it can't be done free-hand, but certainly shouldn't be attempted by someone lacking many hours/years of experience before attempting it. I frequently enough must free-hand run large fingernail bits of sizes equivalent to a panel-raising bit around large table and desktops which simply cannot be effectively maneuvered on a router or shaper table. (And yes, I still have all ten fingers after lo, these many years.)

   I'll also agree that in all machining with bits and cutters of this size, small bites at a time is mandatory and that speed control is also mandatory.

   You might want to consider buying and mounting a Rousseau base plate to mount your router in that shop built table. I think this will require a fixed/non-plunge base on your particular router, but this arrangement makes many procedures much handier than without the Rousseau. I have both a fixed base and a plunge base for my largest router, as well as a second fixed base which is attached to the Rousseau. Switching operations from free-hand to table is a matter of seconds without disturbing the table or fence set-up by simply unscrewing the router from its base.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
1. 
   jimblodgett | Mar 24, 2003 04:54am | #16

   Here's a vote for a heavy, stable router table with a melamine or plam top.  Easy enough to build. The heavier, the better it will absorb vibration and the cleaner milling you'll get.

   About panel raising - I always try to mill the endgrain of the panels first, then the "with grain" sides.  That way the inevitable tear out at the end of the endgrain edge gets machined off when you do the sides anyway.  Small thing, but it can save a panel (or several).

   I try to machine the copes for as many doors as possible before ripping the rails to width - so if I'm milling 1+3/4" stiles and rails for example, I'll try to cope both ends of a 4" wide board, then rip the two rails out of it.  Same idea, eliminates the tearout problem on the backside of the cope.  Can't always do it, but it sure helps when you can.

   You know about climb cutting, to eliminate tear out of your edges?

1. 
   goldhiller | Mar 24, 2003 05:22am | #17

   Good post. Lots of essentials that the rest of us forgot to mention.

   To that list of suggestions/precautions, I'd add the necessity of having a flat panel to start with if you expect to get even raising results and wholeheartedly agree with the large surface dead flat heavy table with melamine surface.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

1. 
   Dens | Mar 24, 2003 06:16am | #18

   I just have to say I had a raised pannel bit take off at me ( guess the collet nut was not tight enough. It went horizontally by me, broke a window inback of me and then went by me again and broke a window infront of me....it was scary and I was very lucky to not get hit by that helicopter... it would have gone through me... I hate learining some things by experience. good luck. keep the speed down ( there's a chart on router speed and bit diameter in the CMT router bit catalogue.

1. 
   IMERC | Mar 24, 2003 06:24am | #19

   Saw the left overs after one of the cabinate installers was disembowelled by a raised panel bit. 

   Pardon me, I hafta go lay down.

2. 
   goldhiller | Mar 24, 2003 06:45am | #20

   Yea, I know, but thnaks for the warning. I've been in the custom furniture and cabinet business since 1974 although I've also been in home construction since approx '84.

   We used to run a huge overarm router slinging 3" diameter/1" shank mortising bits at 35,000 rpm. In our shop, the guy operating it was always required to wear a flak-vest and we rode each other hard if one of us got in a rush and forgot to put it on. It's hot in that thing on a summer's day, but a good thing that we did cause we broke more than one and a couple struck that vest. Luckily, the result was nothing more than some good bruises and sore ribs. We decided the vest was the way to go when the previous owner told us of an accident in which the guy wasn't wearing it. He took it in the abdomen too. Not good at all.

   These are jobs best left to CNC machines these days.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

3. 
   Mongo | Mar 24, 2003 09:36am | #21

   I'd rank a horse-and-three-quarters as being undersized for spinning a 3 1/2" raised bit.

   While it can work, to improve your chances, take the waste off by making preliiminary passes on the table saw. Then use the bit to remove the last eighth-inch or so of the cut.

2. 
   Sancho | Mar 27, 2003 06:36am | #32

   I try to machine the copes for as many doors as possible before ripping the rails to width - so if I'm milling 1+3/4" stiles and rails for example, I'll try to cope both ends of a 4" wide board, then rip the two rails out of it.  Same idea, eliminates the tearout problem on the backside of the cope

   Great idea..why didnt i think of that. All this time ive been making individually.. Makes me want to wear my I want to be like Jim hat and bracelet to Sunday meeting this week 

   Darkworks:  The French "Cheese eatin surrender monkies"..Grounds Keeper Willie

2. 
   PhillGiles | Mar 24, 2003 09:21pm | #22

   While the big 3hp+ router in a table will certainly do the job; if I was faced with having to buy a big router, table, and accessories (you can read this as: "if I could back and do this over again..."), I'd sure think hard about buying a small shaper instead - probably one with a router bit adaptor..

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

1. 
   MajorWool | Mar 25, 2003 10:38am | #23

   One of the woodworking magazines did a comparison between a 3 HP router in a table and the low end Grizzley shaper. Their conclusion was to get the shaper if you planned on making a bunch of panels. As in most projects, how much you plan to do determines how you tool up.

1. 
   PhillGiles | Mar 25, 2003 05:07pm | #24

   Well, if you stop and think about it, half the people we know seem to have a table-mounted router. If not on the job, certainly back at the shop. The number of tasks you can do better, or safer, with a table-mounted router is fairly extensive. And here you can go and buy a shaper, which is basically a table-mounted router anyways, and they throw in precision raising/lowering, sliding table, precision tilting fence, dust port, metal table, easy attachment of hold-downs, and usually a pretty darn good gard; along with the ability to use router bits or stack up your own combination of shaper tooling.

   And all this for less than a 3hp router and basic accessories. If you were considering a "better" table with all the fences and a router-lift, then you could even buy a middle-range shaper for less..

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

1. 
   KenHill3 | Mar 25, 2003 07:55pm | #25

   Phill-

   Yeah, for about $600 you can get something like a Jet and you're cookin' with gas.

   Ken Hill

9. 
   migraine | Mar 26, 2003 01:40am | #26

   All of you guys are replying about using a router for making doors.  Why not concider buy an Delta, or Jet shaper  along with a good set of cutters made specifically for doors?  I know that's alot more money, but once you have a shaper(or 2or3), you are opening up yourself to a whole new world of thicker dooors, mouldings, etc.  While you are at it, look into a power feeder also, that way you will be able to use your fingers to count to ten when you turn 80 or so.   Check out used machinery and Ebay.  I have seen some good deals on shapers there.  One other bonus of a shaper, they don't scream as loud as a 3hp variable speed router and you get a better cut.  Also, try contacting Ballew Saw(Ballewsaw.com   I Think) there phone number is 1-800-cut-rite.  Have them send you a catalogue.  GREAT prices on cutters (try freeborn cutters) and shipping will run about the same as sales tax in your state.   Just don't tell your wife beore you buy.  That way you will get put on "tool restriction" after the fact  ;)

1. 
   Lefturner | Mar 26, 2003 05:57am | #27

   Migrane makes some good points how ever in my original post I said I would be making making some doors for my own kitchen. If I had 5 grand to spare I would buy new cabinets outright. I've been a self employed carpenter for over twenty years and I have no desire to make cabinets for others. Tried that and the drawbacks outweighed the benifits. I don't like being a salesman. Didn't like working at home; you gotta get out and see people sometimes. Too much saw dust, in me and my shop. Thats why I'm waiting for spring to work outside. I'll never forget the jerk that asked why he has to pay the same amount for home-made cabinets as the store charges.

    No, I'm doing this for me, because I like woodworking, I like getting good results and if I need to make several passes because my router is under powered it's O K

   Thank again for all the input!  Dave

1. 
   Qtrmeg | Mar 26, 2003 06:34am | #28

   Why don't you outsource the doors, like anyone with any brains does?

   I say this as I have to make like a zillion this weekend...

1. 
   migraine | Mar 26, 2003 06:45pm | #29

   Any one with "BRAINS" ?  I think that most people that are on this site really don't or won't buy their doors because of the cost and would rather spend the next 6 weekends making them instead of FISHING!  Material cost for an alder door is about $2.30sq' and the same door from Decorative Specialties is probably around $10.00sq' or more.  Thats a great difference in price if you are on a limited budget.  By the way, I bought my doors for my kitchen and I have 3 shapers and 3 different door cutter profiles.  My next home I will be making my own doors because I am on disability and I will have the time, not the money.  So I can see this from both ends.   I have seen some "homemade" doors that look perfect and some that are not even good enough for the fireplace.  It depends on your level of skill and patience.

   Now more about shapers.  Look out for shapers in the local paper, Ebay, or even a used machinery shop.  I have seen some go for a little as $500-$750.  A starter set (2 3/4" dia.) goes for less than $400.  So, if you look in the right place, you can maybe scratch up the funds.  The shaper cutters stay sharp longer than router bits and can be resharpened where as the router bits usually don't mate too well after the first sharpening.  After a while the difference in costs become very small.  Plus you own another tool.  Isn't that the main goal in life...more tools?

1. 
   Qtrmeg | Mar 26, 2003 09:57pm | #30

   I just brought up buying the doors because Dave said this was a one off thing. Why setup to do something you don't want to do?

   For a one time thing? I would buy them. Making doors is busy work, and if you don't have the tools you miss more than fishing.

   I just don't see mousing this to be any fun.

2. 
   Lefturner | Mar 27, 2003 05:06am | #31

   What's so hard to understand? I'm making cab. doors for my kitchen, in my house, and I plan to enjoy the process. I've actually made hundreds of cabinets for customers and for the most part enjoyed that. All my previous work was in laminate doors and cases so now you can see why mine have got to go. If it were someone elses house then you bet I would out sorce them. Then you would still have to veneer all the cases, Plus stain and poly everything. Once again the reason I'm making new doors is because I enjoy woodworking and producing good results.

3. 
   Sancho | Mar 27, 2003 06:39am | #33

   Dude,

   When I built my own kitchen, I built my own doors /drawer fronts also. For someone else I would buy the doors/drawer fronts but for me..i wanted to do. It just feels better getting up in the morning looking at knowing I did it from womb to tomb..  

    

   Darkworks:  The French "Cheese eatin surrender monkies"..Grounds Keeper Willie

   Edited 3/26/2003 11:40:07 PM ET by RonT

4. 
   goldhiller | Mar 27, 2003 07:40am | #34

   I shall second that notion.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

5. 
   Qtrmeg | Mar 27, 2003 01:50pm | #35

   Don't try to kid me, Ron, you just wanted new tools.

6. 
   AlanSenoj | Mar 28, 2003 04:19am | #36

   What does your tagline mean? 

   Darkworks:  The French "Cheese eatin surrender monkies"..Grounds Keeper Willie

   Darkworks?.....Are you an evil  gnome? Kind of reminds me of that Potter kid or Tolkien.Alan Jones