Greetings,
Long story short…I am building a new house and detached workshop. On my property sits an old (circa 1860) farmhouse that is dilapidated and will be razed. Inside the old house are sime nice, wide window and door casings that I would like to recycle and use to trim out the windows and doors in my new shop.
It would be my intent to strip the old layers of paint from the mouldings with a torch and scrapers- whcih leads me to my question…if the old paint is lead based, and due to its age I suspect it is, will heating it with a torch to remove it create hazardous vapors? I like the nostalgia of re-using the old mouldings, especially since the house will be razed, but not at the risk of my health.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Replies
I can't recall the temperature, but yes, if you heat the paint to too high a temperature, you'll be getting into dangerous territory.
My advice is chemical strip. I've done plenty of heat gun stripping, and the problem with lead-based is that once it hits the ground and cools, it becomes extremely brittle paint crumbs. So, how do you clean it up without having microscopic lead-based paint particles all over the place? I guess shop vac. But then what about cleaning out the vac?? See where I'm going...
With chemical strip, it comes off in a goo, and will remain in that state for as long as you need to deal with it. Apply it, take off the paint with scraper, paper tower, etc, and throw the goo out. With lead I typically chemical strip, then wipe down wood with mineral spirits on paper towel to try to get any of the last remaining bit on the wood. And I try to avoid sanding...
If you havent gotten a thorough answer before I can fully respond, Ill be happy to help. My computer is in the shop and Im at a remote location... Ill check back as soon as I can, Im lead certified by the state.
If you take lead seriously, lead is a serious risk. What a lot of people dont realize is that its the lead dust that is the worst culprit. Chips arent as dangerous. When you open a window or shut a door the friction releases lead from paint. Vinyl siding, windows, and mini blinds, when hit by UV from the sun also leach lead.
Big NO on shop vac. Hepa filter vac only. No torch, the particles fume and then cool in the air and little beads of lead attach to your lungs and skin, eyes whatever. For trim and window the best thing you could do is make a steam box, but if that is too much work, they make infrared paint strip lamps that work well. Also if you are going to just scrape work wet.
Ill try to get back and fill in the details.
Edited 12/6/2004 3:43 pm ET by zendo
Propane torch is hot enough to vaporize lead (1100 F)
Consider heat plate, heat gun, or "silent paint remover"(infrared). Used properly, these all keep the paint below 800 F. I prefer heat plate over heat gun for most purposes, though they can be hard to find. Werner still makes one. Have not tried the SPR, which is expensive.
Heat plate looks like this:
View Image
I recently tested 12 different chemical strippers. None worked as well as advertised on many layers of old hard lead paint. Takes several applications, and is expensive. The 'non-toxic' stuff (Peel away 6, Soygel, Back to Nature, etc) works really well on latex, clear stains, shellac, and varnish. It's also good for cleaning up the remnants of lead paint after heat stripping.
What you are proposing is more 'a labor of love' than any sort of cost savings, though I admire the spirit of it.
Here are some links. First one is about hazards, second one weighs pros and cons of various stripping methods.
http://w3.gsa.gov/web/p/hptp.nsf/0/dafd0e62c2ce2b48852565c50054b3ef?OpenDocument
http://www.oldhouseweb.com/stories/Detailed/347.shtml
Have a look at:
http://www.franmar.com/
for paint stripping. Haven't tried it, but heard good things.
-- J.S.
Lead can create a large process, and because its your house I figure I can just tell you the proper method, and maybe others will add as well. Youll have to decide what you are willing to do.
Here is the deal. Whenever you mess with it, dust is created, and it becomes airborne. This includes even using a prybar to take off full pieces of trim. Dampen with a spray bottle it will keep the dust down. You should also have plastic 10 ft in all directions of work zone, or close off area for big job (dont forget air ducts and heat)- on site, or an area that you may scrape this loose trim and windows.
Lead causes Central Nervous System damage and even temporary symptoms arent fun. Some are vomiting, memory loss, nervousness, depression, weird sensations and electric shock feelings in the body and head. Long term effects damage every organ in the body. Lead gets removed some, but it also embeds in the bone to come back and haunt you later. This doesnt mean that everyone will experience all of this, and people have different sensitivity levels to it. Kids can take on extra damage because they are still developing and growing, this is why the EPA and DHS are all over it. Lead also adds to the toxicity level in your body which is made up of all the other things that you have been exposed to in the past. Good example- I used to use gas or mineral spirits to remove paint and tar from my skin, works great. Come to find out both act as a vehicle and push the foreign matter under the skin and straight to you liver and brain. It doesnt mean dont do the job, just be careful. The more you do with safety on each project the less it will effect you down the road.
Cover yourself, then remove your clothes before you enter your home, or vehicle unless you want to be cleaning those as well. Protocol is tyvek suits, changed out everyday, a lead approved respirator, hat, safety glasses, and latex gloves. Wash well before eating, smoking, and after the day is done.
When you vac particles, they break down further, becoming dust and they are small enough to pass through a normal filter. Hepa will trap them but the Hepa has to be one with the filter in front of(before) the motor, some home models have the filter after the moving parts. Shrouded tools hooked to a Hepa are also great, you can use a paint shaver, router, drill as long as the vac picks up the mess.
If you are up to it, the steam box is how the pros restore old windows. Slide trim or window in and the steam will lift the paint easily and make the job damp so that its minimally risky, but you should still wear protective gear.
When finished wash all tools with soapy water. Only bring the tools that you need. Fold plastic sheets inward and put in tied bags.
For people working on a job, all contractors are liable. A homeowner will point the finger at you if a child gets sick. The crazy thing is most cases of lead poisoning are from people who attack their own remodel jobs and get their children sick... thanks Home Depot. The best way to cover your butt is to have a 3rd party test at the beginning of a job, do the job and then test again. You will only have to be responsible to bring the lead level back down to where it was when you started. If the lead was high when you got there only the difference will be your responsibility. When finishing a job, all areas exposed need to be washed well after they have been Hepa vac'd. (this includes walls) Then tested. If you fail the test you have to vac and wash again. It would be better to lose a bid over it, because you accounted for extra time and materials to be legal and have someone else get busted, then to go to court.
Getting rid of it- If it is on stock, like trim, you can dispose of it as construction debris, but if it is chips or scrapping it is considered Hazardous waste. Reason being is that lead is measured by parts per million. On the stock, if the total is ground down the parts per million is small, but in a bag of lead paint it accounts for a lot of the matter. Hazardous waste should be picked up by a local handler.
Ok so there is a pretty full answer, probably more than you wanted to know, but I would tend to agree that the old windows and trim would be cool anywhere, just work safe.
-zen
There was a good article September this year in JLC on lead safe contracting if you want more info. To be certified- http://www.paint.org for a class in your area.
Zendo,
Thank You very much for the thorough reply. I appreciate the effort you've made. Weighing the risk/benefit, you've convinced me that my idea is not sound. In the interest of safety myself and my family I'll seek out some fine big mouldings that do not come with the lead paint risks. That way, I'll get a nice looking job, (i.e. something other that box store mouldings), without the health risks.
Your health is important, but I bet you most of the guys here have worked with lead paint on a job or many and never have suffered a problem.
The guidelines I spoke of are based on HUD and EPA. For remodelers lead is soon going to become more of an issue. As before you have to be the final decision maker.
good example- my dad (and probably many on this site) used to cut asbestos sheeting with an open circular saw, he is fine and has never had any respiratory problems.
Your original question was whether you could remove the lead paint from the old trim safely. As others have previously posted, the answer is yes. Should you take some precautions---sure. By doing so, are you going to put your family's health at risk---doubtul.
Several years ago, EPA delisted lead waste from single family residences as "hazardous waste." Hence, under federal law, homeowners may currently dispose of lead waste in household trash. State law may have more stringent requirements on disposal.
The fact is, we all take various risks in our lives, and I don't view removing lead paint from trim in a safe, responsible way a real risk. If I were you, I would be more concerned with the first part of your post---razing a building that most definitely has lead paint on the clapboards and probably on the walls and ceilings.
Aaron