*
OK so I have listened to all of my esteemed sales gurus and am now serious about qualifying my leads. Have even worked out a Lead Form, complete with a Lead Rating system. Now, if Mrs. Jones does not meet my criteria, how do I explain to her that I will not in fact be providing her an estimate. Some of it is EZ “Ma’am I don’t build soundproof bomb shelters”. BUT, what if you determine that they are price shoppers, who just want some entertainment (me) and they only started thinking about the project that day. How do you politely say, “Thanks but no thanks”?
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
The FHB Podcast crew takes a closer look at an interesting roof.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
*
Pete, one way is to do what Rick does to really qualify them. He tells them that there is a $60 fee for a "Field Evaluation." That in itself will eliminates the tire kickers and real el cheapos. Those who treat you as a professional will pay a professional's fee.
And it's not an estimate. It's an SCA, and by explaining the difference to them, they more than likely will pay your $60 fee.
*Peter, care to share your new form with us? I don't do retail sales but am always interested in how others do things. blue
*What does "SCA" initialize?
*I DONT KNOW.;SECRET CONSTRUCTION ANOGRAM? ,SURE CATASTROPHE ACOMIN'?SKILLED CARPENTER AVAILABLE ? SUPERVISION COSTS ARISIN'? STOP CRYIN' ALREADY!
*Sure Blue..
*"PreQualifing" seems to take on a different meaning here as opposed to the rest of the sales world. In my sales background, to prequalify meant to determine what level of product or installation the customers most want/need and afford. Around here, it seems to mean who do we spend time with. I realize nobody wants to drive around all day talking to, and then spend all nite working up figures for window shoppers, but I really think you are shooting yourself in the foot when you try to lighten the load. I'm new in this business, so I don't claim to have any answers, but it's just bad sales techinque. Charging a small fee is a pretty good option, or flat out stating....this is gonna take me some time to do, are you folks ready? If not, I'll give you a ballpark figure that's gauranteed to change! I don't do large jobs, so my estimate time isn't the same as others here, but for my situation, the tire-kicker is just part of the life. If it was more involved on my end, I'd probably feel differently. I just hope the non-sale becomes my sale when and if they get ready. Jeff
*Jeff...I'm gonna use this line tomorrow...i this is gonna take me some time to do, are you folks ready? If not, I'll give you a ballpark figure that's gauranteed to change! Near the stream still but headin to the banks soon,aj
*Jeff, I think you're probably right that we lose work by not ging to see everybody but, you are looking at this from a different persepctive than the rest of us.I've read your posts and know that you did alot of sales before getting into this. You and Rick are salesmen. We're just a bunch of dumb carpenters who really want nothing at all to do with sales. It's just a necessary evil for us.
*And when I learn how to turn that sales experience into making money at contracting, I'll let everyone in on the secret! Until then....I see your point, I'm just saying an all or nothing plan might hurt as much as it helps(Comming from commission based/cold calling driven sales burned into my mind!). Finding that fine line in the gray area is the trick. Maybe the answer is a quick visit to establish rapport, but not a full blown /detailed estimate. Hopefully a few more guys will chime in with their winning strategies. Jeff
*add "I'll be back for the cash!" You should always close strong. Jeff
*Alls I know is if I ever talk as much as a car salesman and liten as little...I'm gonna choke myself!Who not to emulate, near the stream,aj
*Jim, back on the RO forum I started a discussion about why we should, and how, to get paid for estimates. I stated that first we had to differenciate to the client what an"estimate" really is, just an "estimate", and to begin using a new term for what we would be charging for. I called it an SCA - Specification and Cost Analysis, which is really what it is.My point was that it would not be credited to the client if the hired us since doing so would be back to doing someing for free - again. They are hiring our estimating, desiging, product information, production and project management - all anticipated and addressed using our "exterpise" in doing so. Whan we do create a valid, and accurate SCA, we are simply performing the same services as an professoin CPA or Attorney - providing very important info to our respective "clients" Whether or not that take that info and utilize it is up to them. But, we take the time to "assemble" it using only one thing - our expertise, and of course, our time. It's time to change the public's perception of what they are getting from us from "just" an "estimate" to what it really is, and the tremendous time we expend in creating them.I've been getting paid for SCAs for about 2 years now, and from some of the cheapest people in town - Condo Boards. Being that I'm no super salesman, if I can, so can others, and they are. However, in my case, I preceed my first sales meeting with the client by sending them a copy of my "The Process" first. :"The Process" explaines the entire remodeling or major repair "process" and includes the realities of what's involved in creating an SCA, so when I then call them to verify our first meeting date and time, we have had the opportunity to review "The Process" and my fee structure. If they verify the appointment I know that they know they will pay me for the SCA. If they cancel the appointment, I know they are, or one reason or another, a tire kicker, so for me, "the Process' is also a valuable qualifier also.Time saved, and time used is paid for.
*Sonny...If you are open to it...email or post "the process"...I like the idea of being paid for work.near the stream,aj
*Sonny, don't hold out. Post that process!I happen to agree wholeheartily. Some aspects of remodeling aren't suited for the process, but others are perfect for it. I like to think that I'm interviewing them to see if I'll work for them. That's what I do with builders.blue
*aj and blue, I use a Mac so I wanted to convert it into a PDF file (5 pages), but I'm presently having a problem with Acrobat 4.0, and can't do it. If one of you want to email me with your fax number, I'll fax it to you and maybe you can convert it into a format that can be posted as an attachment for PC Windows users.
*aj and blue, I use a Mac so I tried to convert it (5 pages) into a PDF file, but am apparently having a problem with Acrobat 4.0 and couldn't do it. So, if one of you want to email me with your fax #, I'll fax it to you and perhaps you can convert it into a format that you can post for those other PC Windows users. Also, if you let me know what word processor you use, I can use MacLink Plus software and convert it from my ClarisWorks file into the Windows word processor you use and email it to you also.
*Sonny...i use Word 2000...Try emailing to me and I'll see what I can do.near the stream,aj
*AJ, Mac Link Plus doesn't convert to Word 2000 -yet Waitinf for the new version to come out. Will try to fix my Acrobat 4.0 tonite so I can convert it and post it in one form or another that you guys can use. Worse case, I'll scan it as a PDF and post it.Mama said where there's a will, there's a way - right? Or as I've said on many jobs where a problem occured: Dammit! One way or another it's getting done!
*Sonny,What export options do you have...I can import and convert too...aj
*Try this? Sonny emailed it to me earlier.
*Sonny and Peter, I just started looking over i The Process.It came thru perfect....Thanks as the main idea behind it may be put to use tomorrow...I have a face to face meeting with prospects on the new log home project as mentioned in another thread,near the stream reading,aj
*AJ, did it have the second paragraph on the 2nd page under "What's a SCA? I don't know it teh one I emailed to Pete had that upgrade, which mentioned the fees for the SCAs. If not I can reproduce it here since it's only 3 sentences.
*Sonny...you must have watched Al as I just did...And yes the paragraph was included...So far, I definitly like what I am reading...When did you put this together, etc...near the stream,aj
*This is the first time I've tried to place an "Attachment" to a post. I'll see if it worked.
*Well, at least I could save and open it. Hope it works for you guys also.
*Sonny...It works well....If anyone has trouble with this, you may need to get the PDF plug in for your browser...free download on the net...Adobe Acrobat I think???near the stream luvin Acrobat...aj
*AJ, I think I created it about a year or so ago for some of the people on the RO site. At the time, I had recently sold my business to sons Tom and Pete. My new business only did small jobs so I had no use for The Process, but figured some of my peers could use it, and maybe this might be one of those rare times that my son's might take some of old Dad's advice and use it - they do. Maybe I created it around the transition time of the business sale - January of '99.I started expanded it to include a few other things concerned to contractors and clients alike, but to do so, I must make the current one briefer - is that a word? Ok, shorter. I don't want to loose the potential clients attention, but still want The Process to do a few things:1. Educate them as to the realities of the remodeling process (there are several issues here)2. Use it as a qualifier by notifying them of the SCA charges.3. Assure that they understand the reason contractors can no longer do "estimates" free, and explain just what goes into an SCA and why I call it an SCA.4. Prepare them for Change Orders5. Let them know, tactfully, that an upcoming party or celebration does not determine the starting and completion dates. Mine and my subs schedule and material availability does. 6. Finally, to let them know that done properly, it can be a positive, rewarding and fun "experience", but only if they play fair, and let me run the project.The expanded version will explain why I, and may other contractors, will not take a job if the owner will act as GC or of they will control other subs, which in reality makes me only another sub. Tom and I have learned that is a set-up for a disaster, with Tom or I being the scapegoat. No more of those fiascos for us. Either we're in charge or we don't want the job, because without having the authority to maintain control, all hell usually breaks loose.Tonite I got a call form a new client who was referred to me. She has about a complete 4-8 section of drywall on her lanai ceiling that is sagging. I told her I charge $65 for that type of inspection and taht I could write a Proposal for her during that visit. She nonchalontly said: " OK. When can you come." I now get condo associations (notoriously cheap) to pay me a minimum of $150 for an SCA for jobs bewteen about $800 to about $3000. My point is just that if we take the time to explain to people what an SCA is, and why we cannot afford to spend 20 or more hours per week going on sales calls and working up the SCAs, most people will understand and pay the fee. As busy as most of us are, if they don't want to pay it, they just save me one hell of a lot of time. A couple of months ago while working at a condo, the Board Pres. came up to me and said something like:"You know Sonny, we value your expertise and appreciate how to take care of us. But, that $150 for the estimate we asked for about replacing those door jambs was out of line, considering all the work you do here." I replied. "Mr. Smith, you really don't value my expertise, or my time, - unless it's free, which in itself is an anamoly. If it's free, it's "valued expertise". If I charge for it, apparently you feel it's worthless, and that's why you don't want to pay for it." Does that make sense to you? If so, then your condo association's lawyer and it's CPA should also charge you nothing because you "value" their "expertise". Since they charge you for their "expert" time, apparently their value to you is worthless. Figure that one out?"They paid the $150 and I did the SCA for them, and then I did the work. But I go one step farther. I DO NOT give them a credit for the fee if I get the job. If I did, I'd be back doing them for nothing again. They pay me for my time - time to investigate the project; time to create the SCA, and time to do the work.Oh. Oh. Another long post. Ah, screw it.
*Sonny...great post...I have had all the same things drive me nuts....One of my best multi contract jobs had a bad ending when Thanksgiving plans went up in smoke cause we were expected to be able to make hourly changes with new drawings that still had wet ink...etc!!!And definitely burned myself on the GC as homeowner smarter than their contractor types....and much more...Keep working on the new Process...I need to rewrite it for tennis courts, other specialties and new home construction too.near the sheets,aj
*This week-end I'm going to use The Process as a base to start from and create another one strictly for small jobs and repairs - probably covering about $200 to $300 up to around $3000 or so. Most of those jobs either don't need subs and if so, maybe one or two and even then for small $$ amounts. Anyway, I think a separate one for those types of jobs is appropriate. When I finish it, I'll post it here for critiquing before I make it a done deal. So, any con comments as well as pro will be appreciated.Some of you guys who do a lot of roofing, siding and/or window replacement might even wiant to make one for those categories. In Michigan, we had a separate roofing division and anothor one for siding and window replacements, so I can see where a "The Process" would be of value to differenciate yourself from your competitiors, and especially since there are so many sleazy contractors in those categories.
*That's a good thing, Sonny; thanks for posting it. Another thing to mull over.
*Sonny, I like the document. I like the idea. I like the initiative shown and would rather use a prime contractor like you rather than a guy that focuses on price.If I ever have to do retail sales again, I'll certainly plagiarize some of this. Yes, I'll send you a check!One question, possibly a criticism of a typo. Or maybe it's my weak english skills. Anyways, In the section titled Designing, the fun part, theres a sentence that says "Virtually walk through all areas effected." Should that read "Virtually walk through all areas affected."? Forgive me for being wrong if it's right.Just trying to be helpful, even if it's not warranted,blueps. your next post never got too long. Forget about it. Just say it, if we quit reading, you'll never know it.
*Blue, thanks, and I think you're correct about it being "affected". Those two always make me think which one to use and although I checked my dictionary when I typed it, I apparently misread it's proper usage. I'll make the change.I always encourage anything that will improve what I do, so thanks for the correction. If the retail sales you did was anything like what I did, selling appliances and furniture, I hope you never have to go back to it. The main reason I got out it, (loved the merchandising aspect), was because I was raising 4 kids and even though I became a store manager, I still got tired of 6 days a week with Tuesday or Wednesday off, and working all holidays - even Xmas until 6PM. About 8 years of that was enough.
*Sonny, I'd like your opinion/input on the "sales primer" threads. Ricks too while we're at it! And as an answer to the original Q, how about....I'm sorry, but I don't think we're the best qualified company to take on the job. Jeff
*
OK so I have listened to all of my esteemed sales gurus and am now serious about qualifying my leads. Have even worked out a Lead Form, complete with a Lead Rating system. Now, if Mrs. Jones does not meet my criteria, how do I explain to her that I will not in fact be providing her an estimate. Some of it is EZ "Ma'am I don't build soundproof bomb shelters". BUT, what if you determine that they are price shoppers, who just want some entertainment (me) and they only started thinking about the project that day. How do you politely say, "Thanks but no thanks"?